2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos
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Kurt
Junior Member
The rumours about the abandonment of the current Ukrainian currency can be an often repeated recipe of the German currency reform of June 1948 that effectively ended the rampant black market situation. Germany is the most successful example in Europe.
The structure of the exchange empowered people with official taxed earnings and devalued all savings, debts (including state debts) and money by other means, effectively drying up the post WWII black market economy in Germany. All of a sudden goods were made available for the working population that did gain buying power at the expense of the former black market businessmen.
Ukraine has a similar black market problem that is even more extreme than in Russia. A sudden solution to the black market problem (as it was in Germany) would empower this country to effectively fight back against Russia because people are more willing to defend a state that is able to run a functioning economy.
The structure of the exchange empowered people with official taxed earnings and devalued all savings, debts (including state debts) and money by other means, effectively drying up the post WWII black market economy in Germany. All of a sudden goods were made available for the working population that did gain buying power at the expense of the former black market businessmen.
Ukraine has a similar black market problem that is even more extreme than in Russia. A sudden solution to the black market problem (as it was in Germany) would empower this country to effectively fight back against Russia because people are more willing to defend a state that is able to run a functioning economy.
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Jura The idiot
General
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Radio interview BBC World service podcast 22 March 2014.
Interview with Former PM, Member of United Russia Party. Sergey Alexandrovich Markov.
Note it's not exact as I had to do the transcription And I am not that good.
1 : a council or committee for political or governmental purposes; especially : a group of persons controlling a government especially after a revolutionary seizure of power.
The Interviewer asked a question regarding the disposition of Ukrainian military equipment, I am going to skip that part but the answer he gave is more or less fat chance at Ukrainian army ever seeing it again.
The Russian Propaganda story, the First chance he had he transitioned from answering the question on equipment to bashing the interim government in Kiev and NATO as will be seen shortly.
So why did the Ukrainian Troops not put up a real fight? I'don't think they were not willing to fight for there bases. a number of them did resist using smoke bombs and barricades, but I think they were torn. They had jsut witnessed mass protests and murder in the streets of Kiev, the Russians we not just sending in Russian troops but Locals to. If they had fired live rounds and some one killed it would have been a propaganda Coup proof that the Russian Claims of the Ukrainian Army killing Russian Speaker was all real. So they resisted with what they could keeping it less then lethal. But if your fighting with both hands behind your back your options are few.
Interview with Former PM, Member of United Russia Party. Sergey Alexandrovich Markov.
Note it's not exact as I had to do the transcription And I am not that good.
Highly Questionable.
We Still lack number on this,
Junta, Noun, : a military group controlling a government after taking control of it by force
1 : a council or committee for political or governmental purposes; especially : a group of persons controlling a government especially after a revolutionary seizure of power.
The Interviewer asked a question regarding the disposition of Ukrainian military equipment, I am going to skip that part but the answer he gave is more or less fat chance at Ukrainian army ever seeing it again.
his Emphases not mine
The Russian Propaganda story, the First chance he had he transitioned from answering the question on equipment to bashing the interim government in Kiev and NATO as will be seen shortly.
Any one hearing that and indeed the interviewer asked if this was a justification for farther Russian Military action beyond the Crimea.
Quickest way to destabilize a Government is a Coalition government.This is about to get confrontational.
I am kinda reminded of the moment from magnificent bastards where Hitler starts Shouting
So why did the Ukrainian Troops not put up a real fight? I'don't think they were not willing to fight for there bases. a number of them did resist using smoke bombs and barricades, but I think they were torn. They had jsut witnessed mass protests and murder in the streets of Kiev, the Russians we not just sending in Russian troops but Locals to. If they had fired live rounds and some one killed it would have been a propaganda Coup proof that the Russian Claims of the Ukrainian Army killing Russian Speaker was all real. So they resisted with what they could keeping it less then lethal. But if your fighting with both hands behind your back your options are few.
I would rather buy into the simplest explanation with the least guessing as to exactly why: the Ukrainian population's loyalties are divided, so are the Ukrainian armed forces, in addition given how the current Ukrianian administration came to power it is even less confident of the loyalties and cohesiveness of the Ukrainian armed forces if they were sent on missions with major political implications. Therefore the most the Ukrainian armed forces can be trusted to do right now is to be on alert.
Note that many of the protesters/self-defense groups/militias who overthrew the previous Ukrainian administration are refusing to lay down their arms captured from military arsenals, or to join the official military, so we already have crumbling of central authority right there, and this is technically people on the same side as the current Ukrainian administration.
Mr T
Senior Member
The Ukrainian government made it clear that they were not going to provoke the Russians and give them excuse to invade the rest of the Ukraine. The soldiers in Crimea were probably ordered to not use lethal force.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Exactly. The Ukrainian troops were in a position where in there options were removed form them. Hold the line but don't fight back. all they could do was stand there ground, Barricade and protest.
If they had returned fire the Russians would have used that as Justification to loose the dogs of War. Ukraine is a small nation, Russia A very large. even before this the entire Ukrainian military Army, Navy, Air forces and Marine corps was 200,000 strong the Russian Ground forces alone is 360,000 those are both 2010 numbers.
All they could do is trade AK's and Vepr's and Tavors for smoke bombs, the Ukrainian National Anthem and barricades. when the Russians and there Militia moved in and broke down the barricades. what could the do. when there ships were boarded they had no where to go, and the Russian troops and Militia would have prevented Scuttling or even welcomed it as they would just float the ships and repair.
Ukraine is not little by any measure and it is populace. I have estimates that there were some 30,000 Ukraine military personnel from all branches based on the peninsular. That is an army in itself and some of the best equipped units to boot in many instances.
If they were unaware that the events in Kiev could prompt a Russian counter action, then they must be uniquely badly informed. Had they been ready at the first signs of trouble and reacted to the reports of armed men on the streets, then things may have gone very differently.
The soldiers however stayed in their bases and did nothing for over nearly two weeks or afterwards destroy the heavy weapons now in the Russian Arsenal.
Simple fact is that 30,000 men based in a key military district are not expected to just sit back and watch without resistance when the country they are sworn and paid to defend is invaded.
This is however exactly what has happened and even the Ukraine press is asking questions about the Military
I am sorry, I did not realize you consider praising freedom being equal to trolling, my bad. By writing this post I did not intend to offense anyone, please accept my deepest apologize. I have adjusted my post to your kind request.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
As the nation is so is the Army, Sampan The Russian In the interview I transcript Claimed a 90% defection rate. Even if his numbers are bull. One has to believe that there were defections. The Government of Ukraine Just went through a massive political shift. Russian TV and Radio who supply the majority broadcasts into the Region has been blasting Propaganda Claiming the return of the Ultra nationalist and Neo Nazi's and who knows what else. A good chunk of those soldiers had to have been locals with blood ties to Russia or those who came from family of Eastern and Southern Ukraine with deep Ties to Russia.
As well as Troops who Just did not want to be there as they are conscripts or they came from Kiev and are worried about there homes.
They are suddenly under house arrest.
They are watching a "Referendum" who's results favor the Russians that means the people were against them.
The 30,000 troops is getting whittled and whittled and whittled down until what you have left is not a Army but a few Loyal units. Who are isolated over run and not in any real position to stand. Thee navy is blockaded in it's harbor. Sampan they had no options here fight and die and start the real was as not only are they surrounded but the Russians have divisions parked on the Boarders waiting for the green light to charge. The Ukrainian who remained loyal forces chose the lesser of two evils and protested and evacuated with the aim of regrouping in Ukraine Proper.
As well as Troops who Just did not want to be there as they are conscripts or they came from Kiev and are worried about there homes.
They are suddenly under house arrest.
They are watching a "Referendum" who's results favor the Russians that means the people were against them.
The 30,000 troops is getting whittled and whittled and whittled down until what you have left is not a Army but a few Loyal units. Who are isolated over run and not in any real position to stand. Thee navy is blockaded in it's harbor. Sampan they had no options here fight and die and start the real was as not only are they surrounded but the Russians have divisions parked on the Boarders waiting for the green light to charge. The Ukrainian who remained loyal forces chose the lesser of two evils and protested and evacuated with the aim of regrouping in Ukraine Proper.
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