2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

Miragedriver said:

Ukraine crisis: independence vote in the east to go ahead, state rebels

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Interesting that Putin wants to delay the vote and the separatists want the vote to proceed

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By now it is evident that the pro-Russian activists in Ukraine are weaker militarily than the pro-Western activists, hinted at early on by Yanukovych's flight to Russia rather than eastern Ukraine. Putin never wanted to directly intervene with the exception of securing the Crimea because of the naval base there, he would rather have a strong pro-Russian faction in an independent Ukraine. However the situation have not developed that way.

So now Putin is both playing "good cop" (the pro-Russian activists being "bad cop") and playing for time for several likely reasons:
1) to better prepare the pro-Russian activists for military conflict with the pro-Western activists
2) to better prepare Russia for the additional economic sanctions that are likely to follow
3) to better prepare the Russian military for an intervention in eastern Ukraine (even if it is a last resort) and to counter a NATO counter-intervention up to the cusp of WW3 if it comes to that

I believe Russia has communicated clearly that it values Ukraine now as dearly as China valued Korea at the time of the Korean war and will respond accordingly if a defeat of the pro-Russian faction by a hostile pro-Western faction becomes imminent.

delft said:

I think Putin wanted to give the Kiev regime a reason to end its violence against the federalists after which these would delay the vote perhaps even indefinitely. Kiev said no, so the referendum goes ahead.

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This proposal came not just from Putin but from a roadmap agreed with the OSCE

In a nutshell:

Putin moves Russian forces away from the Ukrainian border

Ukraine removes its forces out of the Donbass

The Pro Federalists postpone their referendum for Sunday

Kiev and the Federalists start negotiating reform

All parties and all regions support the National Elections on May 25th

All sides disarm their militias and surrender occupied buildings and spaces.

Considering that Kiev and its allies have been accusing Putin of not trying to de-escalate the situation, he has just presented a very balanced and reasonable plan in conjunction with a major European security organisation and had it thrown back in his face.

I think certain Governments need to give a very detailed and compelling explanation to justify their dismissive response.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Omg it gets better I followed Jara's link and our rusty knight in shining armor... Has a Shield and not one of the riot cops type its a full blown Heater Shield (meaning its boat shaped, like the kind once carried by knights. I keep looking for his sword, horse or pike.
I mean I can't stop laughing. If not for the blue jeans I might have though I was watching some episode of Primeval or Doctor who. All I can think of is that this guy is a mascot or something.

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You may lolz, but since the overwhelming majority of the combatants were armed with clubs, knives, crossbows etc, that medieval gear, if it was properly made and not just made for show, may well offer better protection to the wearer than more conventional gear, which tend to be designed to counter ballistic weapons.

plawolf said:

You may lolz, but since the overwhelming majority of the combatants were armed with clubs, knives, crossbows etc, that medieval gear, if it was properly made and not just made for show, may well offer better protection to the wearer than more conventional gear, which tend to be designed to counter ballistic weapons.

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I was LOLz, but was well aware. however his protection it would be lacking in a few areas the Heater Sheild was meant for use form horse back and would be a poor choice for a Sheild wall as it's to small to offer group coverage. the Mail might stop a knife but fails against blunt force trauma. the helmet would deflect a head blow as it's "Onion peak" style ( did not the Chinese and Arabs have similar styles?) is meant to turn a direct hit into a glancing blow by redirecting and channeling it into his shoulder which appears to be lightly armored. the arm gear would work and in fact most modern riot gear reproduces it. He is also open to incendiary attacks from Molotov cocktails. out of the visible fighters he infact is one of the better armored. almost every one in the scene though is open to attack at the legs. none of them look like they are protected against firearms they are a makeshift Riot force.
Riot Breaking barrows from the Greek Phalanx and Roman sheild wall fighting tactics. this makes sense as those tactics and structures were designed to fight a disorganized rabble. The Spears are gone, the swords were traded for clubs and the archers were traded for marksmen but the fundamentals remain. The Pushing shield wall with Skermishers

Miragedriver said:

Interesting that Putin wants to delay the vote and the separatists want the vote to proceed

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Maybe it shows Putin wants to close Pandora's Box - but it's too late. Or he knew the rebels would still go ahead, so he had nothing to lose by trying to show Europe and the US he wasn't trying to make things worse.

We can be sure the rebels get 90%+ of the vote. Not because everyone in the region wants to break away but that the vote will only go ahead in areas the rebels hold. In areas where they don't control affairs there won't be a vote. So they will be effectively deciding the answer to their own question. Pretty pointless.

An economic commentator in my Dutch newspaper remarks today that the IMF accords the Kiev regime $17b, which is six times the Ukrainian contribution to the IMF, much more than the four fold amount which is normally the maximum for governments in peril. The talk in April was for $27b in total to which IMF would contribute $14b. He then compares it to 19th century colonialism when missionaries were sent into an area and only when they survived would there be a follow up of colonial administrators and their armed forces. He noticed that the IMF are the missionaries and only when it "survives" would there be contributions from the European Development bank and from other countries. He further remarks that if the South Eastern provinces were to be lost the ability of Kiev to repay would be seriously damaged and the $17b, first immediately $3.4b, later trances of $1.4b, would be reduced accordingly.
No doubt Kiev thinks it cannot stop its violence against the federalists because that would cost to much of the $17b.

A further view on the IMF action from Pepe Escobar at:

A US warship arrived on Thursday in Georgia's port of Batumi, the US embassy said, sending a message of support to NATO allies amid the spiralling crisis in neighbouring Ukraine.

The USS Taylor's "presence in Georgia reaffirms the United States' commitment to strengthening ties with NATO allies and partners like Georgia, while working toward mutual goals of promoting peace and stability in the region," the embassy said in a statement.

The US 6th Fleet frigate arrived in Georgia for three days of exercises with the country's coastguard in the Black Sea after completing joint live-fire exercises and an anti-submarine warfare scenario along with Romanian ships.

"Allied ships, planes, exercises show vigilance and resolve from the Baltic to the Black Sea. We'll keep reinforcing NATO security," NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen wrote on Twitter on Wednesday.

Events in neighbouring Ukraine's standoff with Russia have alarmed Tbilisi which fought and lost its own war with Moscow in 2008, and says it is still exposed to a Russian threat.

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delft said:

An economic commentator in my Dutch newspaper remarks today that the IMF accords the Kiev regime $17b, which is six times the Ukrainian contribution to the IMF, much more than the four fold amount which is normally the maximum for governments in peril. The talk in April was for $27b in total to which IMF would contribute $14b. He then compares it to 19th century colonialism when missionaries were sent into an area and only when they survived would there be a follow up of colonial administrators and their armed forces. He noticed that the IMF are the missionaries and only when it "survives" would there be contributions from the European Development bank and from other countries. He further remarks that if the South Eastern provinces were to be lost the ability of Kiev to repay would be seriously damaged and the $17b, first immediately $3.4b, later trances of $1.4b, would be reduced accordingly.
No doubt Kiev thinks it cannot stop its violence against the federalists because that would cost to much of the $17b.

A further view on the IMF action from Pepe Escobar at:

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Which begs the question: what Putin could do to cost Kiev more than that $17b, and he could still get away with it?

Jura said:

AFB, I'll send you (or anybody who wants to hear) a Private Message with that blogger's description of events instead of posting it here, so that it doesn't look like I want to challenge the posts by the Moderator of this thread
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/mem...s-views-photos-videos-85-6796.html#post280231
and
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/mem...s-views-photos-videos-86-6796.html#post280274

As for "significance of medieval armor": I hope I didn't overlook anything in that blog, but the relevant caption (or any other part) doesn't say anything useful, I think; my translation:
"Practically all people who gathered at Alexandrovsky Prospect [this is a wide street where pro-Russian protesters were at the beginning of events] had masks, helmets, shields. Their weapons were sticks, baseball-bats, and sometimes axes. As for identification symbols, a vast majority of those people had the Ribbon of Saint George, and some of them had red bands wrapped around their hands." So: I don't know.

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Jura

Here is a video with translation subtitles from the website of the Saker, who is a contributor to ATOL.
He certainly paints a different picture to my assumptions and talks at length about the red armbands
Is this account in accordance or conflict with the account on the site you provided?



Otherwise, two videos of Ms Nuland attending the House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on Wednesday

MwRYum said:

Which begs the question: what Putin could do to cost Kiev more than that $17b, and he could still get away with it?

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This article didn't concern what Putin does. It notices that IMF provides 50% more money than the normal limit for emergency loans. It sees the Kiev regime isn't trying to reach a political solution to the Ukrainian problems and does see that violence isn't successful so suggests that as a result the richest part of Ukraine might be lost and with that a large part of the IMF loan. It notices that the loan will be reduced if that were to happen.