2009 Update to Jeff Head's PLAN pages

le thi kieuoanh said:

well done jeff. it's most informative. keep up with the good work

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the kind words. There is a lot of work represented on that site over the years. Please feel free to let others who may be interested in the PLAN know about it too

Thanks Jeff for the great insight you provide on the PLAN Growth and developments, I just want your views on what the new destroyers from the PLAN might look like.

Thanks in advance,

Mehdi

mehdi said:

Thanks Jeff for the great insight you provide on the PLAN Growth and developments, I just want your views on what the new destroyers from the PLAN might look like.

Thanks in advance,

Mehdi

Click to expand...

Well, since we are not surwe what experience the PLAn is having with their current 052B and 052C destroyers, which are clearly the most advanced indigenous DDG designs they have...ie. how effective is the PARS on the 052C, and how effective is the battle management system...it's hard to predict.

I can tell you what I think is necessary in a top of the line, very modern and powerful multi-role DDG.

I believe the 052C could be modified to fulfill both the strong air defense role asd well as the AsuW and ASW roles. To do that, the 052D would need the following:

1. More VLS missile cells. 96 would be nice, including VLS ASuW missiles.
2. Alleviate the cannister launched ASuW missiles in favor of #1.
3. A larger helo hanger to accomodate 2 ASW helos simultaneously.
4. A better sonar suite, including a more powerful dome and TAS.
5. Development of a close in anti-missile, missile to compliment the gatling CIWS.

In order to do all of this, the vcessel is probably going to be close to 9,000t or a little more, and involve some new development for the PLAN.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts.

Those won't come true unless PLAN packs more power into the ships' propulsion system. So, I think it would come down to whether the 052D will have 2 or 4 gas turbines. If it will use 2 turbines, then don't expect it to look much different than 052B/052C.

Engineer said:

Those won't come true unless PLAN packs more power into the ships' propulsion system. So, I think it would come down to whether the 052D will have 2 or 4 gas turbines. If it will use 2 turbines, then don't expect it to look much different than 052B/052C.

Click to expand...

Well, those were only my own thoughts and suggestions about what they should do...not at all what they are likely to do.

My guess is that it is much more likely that the 052D will have minimal improvements in the actual armament areas...maybe a few more missiles, and other improvements in tems of propulsion, electronics, and fixes to whatever they feel is lacking in the 052C.

Time will tell.

Jeff Head said:

Nice thing about the LCU 1600 is that it can fit nicely in the well deck of either a Tarawa or Wasp class, while these are far too large to fit inside the new Type 071 LPD.

Click to expand...

I'd say those landing craft are tailored for a possible taiwan scenario. Large enough to cross the strait on their own, yet simple and cheap enough to be procured in large numbers.

Totoro said:

I'd say those landing craft are tailored for a possible taiwan scenario. Large enough to cross the strait on their own, yet simple and cheap enough to be procured in large numbers.

Click to expand...

Probably correct...and not just Taiwan...the Spratleys and others would be within their operational capability perhaps.

OTOH, when comparing them, (size of soldiers near the mast to the person on the ramp of the 071...and realizing that the 074A does have some draft) if the well deck of the 071 were just a bit higher, and if the mast on those vessels could fold down...




A little higher well deck...either through folding down the mast for the 071, or perhaps in a future, larger PLAN LHA, might just allow for one to fit inside an 071 (though doubtful) or one or more inside a larger vessel.

Great PLAN update Jeff, as to Varyag, I have stated elsewhere that the PLAN are using her if for nothing else as a training school for their Engineers and shipyard workers in the do's and don'ts of carrier construction... much as the Russians are using the Vikramaditya to gain experience (The Soviet carriers were built in Ukraine, not Russia). One of the chief 'anti-carrier' arguments in relation to the Chinese is that they have no experience in building them, well they may not have started her from scratch but I'm sure they are gaining plenty of experience now in the most complicated aspect of carrier construction, the fitting out phase. With Varyag they have the advantage of not having to deliver her to any schedule (as with the Vikramaditya) so can take their time to make sure they get it right. The fact that a ski jump ramp was recently spotted at a Military airbase on the runway lends credence to Chinese ambitions in Naval aviation. Watch this space... but don't hold your breath!

Obi Wan Russell said:

Great PLAN update Jeff, as to Varyag, I have stated elsewhere that the PLAN are using her if for nothing else as a training school for their Engineers and shipyard workers in the do's and don'ts of carrier construction... much as the Russians are using the Vikramaditya to gain experience (The Soviet carriers were built in Ukraine, not Russia). One of the chief 'anti-carrier' arguments in relation to the Chinese is that they have no experience in building them, well they may not have started her from scratch but I'm sure they are gaining plenty of experience now in the most complicated aspect of carrier construction, the fitting out phase. With Varyag they have the advantage of not having to deliver her to any schedule (as with the Vikramaditya) so can take their time to make sure they get it right. The fact that a ski jump ramp was recently spotted at a Military airbase on the runway lends credence to Chinese ambitions in Naval aviation. Watch this space... but don't hold your breath!

Click to expand...

Thanks Obi Wan.

I agree with what you have said about the varyag. They are certainly using her to train themselves on carrier construction, makeup, refit, etc.

I just think that they will ultimately take the next step and also put her to sea to get even more milage out of her in training their operations and air wings before the new, indigenous carriers come on line.

Then again, the may not.

Time will tell.

BTW, I now have a CVF - Queen Elizabeth page up on my WorldWideAircraftCarrier site (as you may know by now). Let me know what you think.

jeff your website is cool