09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Anlsvrthng]

You must know more than me, but AFAIK the UK has only built about 29 nuclear submarines to this day. I dont think that they are behind the US in terms of nuclear submarine tech.

I think it is a bit stretch to consider the UK submarine forces or generally the armed forces as independent from the USA.

The UK using USA made SLBMs, USA industrial persons helping the manufacturing of submarines, and the supply chain shared with the USA as well.


I think this is the case with the French program as well, the only french carrier using USA made catapults, so we can assume the submarine forces use foreign machines / equipment, and most likely there was external help regards of design/construction as well.


There are only three country making advanced military equipment independently at the moment, USA, Russia and China, and the later join late this club so playing catch up with the other two.

 

[Errys]

Do you seriously think that the experience and capability of the Chinese comparable to the USA/Russian ?

It will take at least 50 more submarine and 15-20 years to see really capable nuclear submarines from China.

China next generation sub may one gen ahead of US next gen sub, may use IEPS,

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

on new nuclear-powered type 095 attack submarines and Type 096 ballistic missile submarines.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.
That will make the new nuclear powered attack submarines (SSNs)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Sources in the PLAN were quoted by Chinese media as saying the Type 095 will be the first in the world to use an electrically-powered rim-driven thruster, whose main advantage over traditional propulsion systems consisting of a propeller or propellers linked to a shaft is its low noise emissions.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

China next generation sub may one gen ahead of US next gen sub, may use IEPS,

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

on new nuclear-powered type 095 attack submarines and Type 096 ballistic missile submarines.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

can drastically reduce the acoustic signature of any SSN.
That will make the new nuclear powered attack submarines (SSNs)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Sources in the PLAN were quoted by Chinese media as saying the Type 095 will be the first in the world to use an electrically-powered rim-driven thruster, whose main advantage over traditional propulsion systems consisting of a propeller or propellers linked to a shaft is its low noise emissions.

We forecasting the future , so there is probability to see the 18th Chinese sub as/ more advanced than the Russian/USA ones.

However it is quite small.

Just check the struggling of the USA with the f35/zumwalt/ford carrier , just as a reminder about the cost/time and traps of wunderweapons.

At the moment the Chinese navy struggling with things that overcame by the USA/Russia decades ago.

 

[Figaro]

So, it needs at least 10-20 years and one-two more submarine generation to be on par with the Russian/USA quality.

I would not be so sure about that ...

719所所长翁震平：“我们要在短时间走完先进国家几十年走过的路。”
Wang Zhenping, director of 719 Institute, said : "we have to walk the decades long road of advanced countries in a short period of time."

海军工程大学院士何琳：预计到2025年左右，中国的核潜艇将达到世界一流水平。
He Lin, an academician at the Naval Engineering University, predicts that China's nuclear submarines will reach world-class levels by 2025.

中船重工：加快实现新型核潜艇攻关突破，为海军2025年实现走向深蓝远海的战略转型提供高质量武器装备。
CSIC : Accelerate the breakthrough of the new nuclear submarine and provide high quality weapons and equipment for the Navy's strategic transformation to the deep blue and distant sea by 2025.

At the moment the Chinese navy struggling with things that overcame by the USA/Russia decades ago.

And please tell how you have arrived to that conclusion, especially given the very limited news we have about the PLAN SSN subs. It appears you are relying on extremely outdated open source materials from the 2000s.

 

[Broccoli]

Notice the name they use for next-gen attack sub.

Over the past 15 years, the PLAN has constructed twelve nuclear submarines – two Shang I class SSNs (Type 093), four Shang II class SSNs (Type 093A), and six Jin class SSBNs (Type 094), two of which were awaiting entry into service in late 2019. Equipped with the CSS-N-14 (JL-2) submarinelaunched ballistic missile (SLBM), the PLAN’s four operational Jin class SSBNs represent the PRC’s first credible sea-based nuclear deterrent. Each Jin class SSBN can carry up to 12 JL-2 SLBMs. In 2019, these missiles were displayed at the PRC’s 70th anniversary parade revealing at least a full complement of 12 JL-2s are complete and operational.

China’s next-generation Type 096 SSBN,which will likely begin construction in the early-2020s, will reportedly carry a new type of SLBM. The PLAN is expected to operate the Type 094 and Type 096 SSBNs concurrently and could have up to eight SSBNs by 2030. This would align with Chairman Xi Jinping’s 2018 directive for the SSBN force to achieve “stronger growth.”

By the mid-2020s, China will likely build the Type 093B guided-missile nuclear attack submarine. This new Shang class variant will enhance the PLAN’s anti-surface warfare capability and could provide a clandestine land-attack option if equipped with land-attack cruise missiles (LACMs).

Page 45.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Anlsvrthng]

And please tell how you have arrived to that conclusion, especially given the very limited news we have about the PLAN SSN subs. It appears you are relying on extremely outdated open source materials from the 2000s.

If they happy with the Type 093 then they just would continue the building of them, and doesn't develop a new class.

 

[Tam]

I think it is a bit stretch to consider the UK submarine forces or generally the armed forces as independent from the USA.

The UK using USA made SLBMs, USA industrial persons helping the manufacturing of submarines, and the supply chain shared with the USA as well.


I think this is the case with the French program as well, the only french carrier using USA made catapults, so we can assume the submarine forces use foreign machines / equipment, and most likely there was external help regards of design/construction as well.


There are only three country making advanced military equipment independently at the moment, USA, Russia and China, and the later join late this club so playing catch up with the other two.

To be fair with the British, BAE Systems is often contracted by the US Navy to provide services and a whole lot of other stuff like guns.

 

[Tam]

We forecasting the future , so there is probability to see the 18th Chinese sub as/ more advanced than the Russian/USA ones.

However it is quite small.

Just check the struggling of the USA with the f35/zumwalt/ford carrier , just as a reminder about the cost/time and traps of wunderweapons.

At the moment the Chinese navy struggling with things that overcame by the USA/Russia decades ago.

If they happy with the Type 093 then they just would continue the building of them, and doesn't develop a new class.

50/50. Type 093B is said to be developed and forthcoming. This is a 093 with VLS tubes acting as an SSGN.

Type 095 is said to be developed. Some even say there might be one going around. Chinese sub secrecy is extreme, and projects that are already running are not revealed years later, sometimes many years later.

093 design itself is already old, with work predating before the turn of the century and the first pair of subs made soon afterwards. The various modifications on the design is indicative of a mature but aging design that's being modernized and is more than ripe for the advent of a whole new clean sheet design as putting lipstick on a pig will only get you this far.

Design acceleration is possible thanks to supercomputer, makes thousands of hydrodynamic modeling and simulations a cinch.

 

[palejade]

Did anyone solve the puzzle of whether or not this Type 094 has 16 launch tubes instead of the normal 12? I'm trying to sort them out by appearance, there seem to be at least three different types of sail. Is there a definitive guide as to what's going on?

 

[jimmyjames30x30]

Did anyone solve the puzzle of whether or not this Type 094 has 16 launch tubes instead of the normal 12? I'm trying to sort them out by appearance, there seem to be at least three different types of sail. Is there a definitive guide as to what's going on?View attachment 63471

It looks like 12 to me, not 16. Compare it with another 094 with hatch open would give you a clearer picture.