09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[AndrewS]

well, they are not fully natural circulating, but just allows it to natural circulate at much higher power than other SSNs. If your SSN needs to be going at 30+ knot, then that's too much power for natural circulation. Hence, why Ohio class is fully natural circulating, but Seawolf is not.

Also, pumpjet propulsion also allows for lower transiting noise iirc. So, I guess they are really aiming to lower the noise level at transiting speed (I would guess up to 25 knots for something like 09V). But keep in mind that coolant pumps aren't exactly the loudest component in the engine room. If you can quiet all the other stuff at higher speed, then you can do it for the pumps too.

I used 25 knots in there because I think someone said that Seawolf is quieter at 25 knots than LA class when it's not moving. So, I'd think that's the kind of metric that PLAN would really care about for 09V. Can you get out there at 25 knots and not be detected.

Both the Yasen and the Virginia had a stated/target silent speed of 28 knots (52km/h), which is a curious coincidence.

So I think that represents some sort of hydrodynamic limit for cavitation, whether due to the hull or due to the propeller tip speed

The Yasen and NSSN designs are over 20 years old now, and we can see that the latest Type-093B have pumpjets and likely quiet or natural circulation reactors, which means they have surpassed the Los Angeles class.

So I suspect the Type-095 has been designed with a silent speed of 28 knots, comparable to the Yasen and Virginia.

 

[Tomboy]

Speaking of which, here's another side-by-side view of 093B and 095 SSNs by @foolsball on Twitter.

Assuming that both SSNs are of the same length - Honestly, I wouldn't rule out the presence of VLS cells/multipack tubes fore of the sail for the time being. The real estate over there looks really tempting...

View attachment 169597

Now that I think of it and did some more research, it could be that the large and long nose would be used for forward flank arrays and a forward large aperture sonar like the original Yasen. Later Yasen-M has the flank array removed for whatever reason (commonly cited due to cost) and has the hull reduced in length by taking out a few hull sections.

09V should have alot less of a constraint on cost as Yasen and given its expected role as primarily anti-submarine in nature meaning having the largest and most advanced sonar arrays would be of the uttermost importance than trying to put an extra launch tube or two forward of the sail. Same with also having a very large torpedo section for large magazine size and possibly a large number of torpedo tubes as well.

 

[Tomboy]

Well, turns out there are indeed two of the aforementioned 38MW steam turbines stated in the tender document, with handover stipulated in June and August 2026 respectively. Posted by @星依樱未 on Bilibili.

View attachment 162331

Considering the claims of one 095 SSN (if not two) already under construction for quite some time by now (and purported launch by the end of this year if not early-2026), I would suspect that these steam turbines are meant for the 2nd and 3rd boats (if not the 3rd and 4th boats). Though, this is just my own speculation on the matter.

Given that the first 09V was launched before these are handed over, it now seems much more likely that there are at least a 2nd and 3rd boat somewhere along construction. If not possibly a 4th if another 09V launch happens in the next few months as rumored. It may be possible that PLAN consider the 09V design mature enough to start serial from the first batch.

 

[henrik]

Given that the first 09V was launched before these are handed over, it now seems much more likely that there are at least a 2nd and 3rd boat somewhere along construction. If not possibly a 4th if another 09V launch happens in the next few months as rumored. It may be possible that PLAN consider the 09V design mature enough to start serial from the first batch.

They are probably building as many as 8 in the first batch, as they were building the type 093B.

 

[Maikeru]

We need to explain the preponderance of 9m hull sections outside the yards - at least 75% of them. If 095 is a hybrid like Yasen, i.e. only partially 12m single/pressure hull, rest 9m but double hull, then it makes sense that new construction is all or mostly 095. But I think it's most likely that 09IIIB construction is continuing and 095 is 12m single hull with only a limited number being built.

 

[drowingfish]

We need to explain the preponderance of 9m hull sections outside the yards - at least 75% of them. If 095 is a hybrid like Yasen, i.e. only partially 12m single/pressure hull, rest 9m but double hull, then it makes sense that new construction is all or mostly 095. But I think it's most likely that 09IIIB construction is continuing and 095 is 12m single hull with only a limited number being built.

if that is so, PLAN seems quite urgent in their demand for new subs that they are not willing to wait for the best one to be built in numbers.

 

[ENTED64]

I'm pretty skeptical that 095 uses part 12m and part 9m hull sections that look the same as 093B hull sections. A much more likely explanation is that the PLA is doing what it always does, iterative design and improvements along with testing new stuff thoroughly before mass production. In the mean time 093B will still be undergoing mass production. Maybe we'll see a few more 095 launched in the coming years but I don't see it taking over for 093B as the bulk of the launches until the 2030s.

if that is so, PLAN seems quite urgent in their demand for new subs that they are not willing to wait for the best one to be built in numbers.

I'd argue it's the opposite, instead of rushing the 095 into mass production with less than their usual testing and confirmation period, they are just producing more 093B while 095 has all the bugs worked out. That shows they are still committed to their long term plan and are not hitting the panic button for more capability asap. In the mean time the 093B design is still a decent design and PLAN needs to replace the outdated SSN it still has like the 091 as well as maintain its skilled workforce and supply chain for when 095 does enter mass production.

 

[sunnymaxi]

I'm pretty skeptical that 095 uses part 12m and part 9m hull sections that look the same as 093B hull sections. A much more likely explanation is that the PLA is doing what it always does, iterative design and improvements along with testing new stuff thoroughly before mass production. In the mean time 093B will still be undergoing mass production. Maybe we'll see a few more 095 launched in the coming years but I don't see it taking over for 093B as the bulk of the launches until the 2030s.


I'd argue it's the opposite, instead of rushing the 095 into mass production with less than their usual testing and confirmation period, they are just producing more 093B while 095 has all the bugs worked out. That shows they are still committed to their long term plan and are not hitting the panic button for more capability asap. In the mean time the 093B design is still a decent design and PLAN needs to replace the outdated SSN it still has like the 091 as well as maintain its skilled workforce and supply chain for when 095 does enter mass production.

093B is the only pump jet propulsion SSN PLAN currently has. so it absolutely make sense for them to procure more 093B until 09V design ratify for serial production. as per the trio, two 09V were under construction and 09VA is also under development.

093B first batch has completed and most likely 2nd batch under production.

 

[Blitzo]

We need to explain the preponderance of 9m hull sections outside the yards - at least 75% of them. If 095 is a hybrid like Yasen, i.e. only partially 12m single/pressure hull, rest 9m but double hull, then it makes sense that new construction is all or mostly 095. But I think it's most likely that 09IIIB construction is continuing and 095 is 12m single hull with only a limited number being built.

We've had fairly established rumours going back the last few years that 09IIIB production will be continuing for a while even as 09V production starts.

Seeing hull sections consistent with ongoing production of both 09IIIB and 09V is not only entirely expected, but it would be odd if it were not the case.

 

[BoraTas]

We've had fairly established rumours going back the last few years that 09IIIB production will be continuing for a while even as 09V production starts.

Seeing hull sections consistent with ongoing production of both 09IIIB and 09V is not only entirely expected, but it would be odd if it were not the case.

We need to explain the preponderance of 9m hull sections outside the yards - at least 75% of them. If 095 is a hybrid like Yasen, i.e. only partially 12m single/pressure hull, rest 9m but double hull, then it makes sense that new construction is all or mostly 095. But I think it's most likely that 09IIIB construction is continuing and 095 is 12m single hull with only a limited number being built.

Looking at PLAN's budget and the likely cost of the 09V, it is super unlikely that the 093B procurement will stop. We are stuck with a high-low mix for now. If they suddenly increase the budget, the things would change.