09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[SEAD]

i

I would say that unlike the US, which has to control the sea lanes in the Pacific to the Far East and Australasia, China will be more interested in controlling the sea lanes on the first and second island chain and the Indian Ocean to get to the Middle East.
So the idea you will be designing nuclear attack submarines for deep oceanic combat seems kind of ludicrous to me. I do agree that it should be less important for China to have VLS on their attack submarines. At best you should be able to make do with cruise missiles launched from torpedo tubes. A technology they already have. Unlike Russia, China will not have a disparity in terms of the surface navy. So the idea you need to have carrier group killer SSGNs as part of doctrine to the same degree, I think, is kind of pointless. And US ships are way more vulnerable to torpedo attacks than cruise missiles.

if you have only torpedos you must follow your targets when they are moving (perhaps at 30knots, a terrible speed for silencing or in an area with poor acoustic environment to hide in) until the first wave of attack.

But if you have long-range missiles(e.g. 1000km YJ-xx) you can just patrol the area and wait for commands. That makes SSNs much more survivable and flexible. No ASW airplanes or ships can kill a submarine 1000km away.
(Yes I’m repeating myself)

 

[banjex]

Provided you have the kill chain and ISR to kill moving targets a thousand clicks away.

 

[gelgoog]

In case of a full blown peer vs peer war you can't assume the orbital satellites will still be available.
And like I said, you have the issue that US destroyers have better anti-missile than anti-torpedo defenses.
I suppose there are long range missile carried torpedos, I know the Russians and the US have those, I don't know what China has available.

 

[SEAD]

In case of a full blown peer vs peer war you can't assume the orbital satellites will still be available.

That’s why you need to follow your targets closely in the torpedo case.
That’s also why you need to launch missiles immediately once satellites are destroyed.

And like I said, you have the issue that US destroyers have better anti-missile than anti-torpedo defenses.

I must repeat again that the first Aegis interrupting test for HGV will be in FY2023 so they CANNOT interrupt DF-17 before that.
China will get more and more advanced missiles while US gets more and more BMD capability, but in the race BMD has a worse position.

I suppose there are long range missile carried torpedos, I know the Russians and the US have those, I don't know what China has available.

I’m curious too.

 

[Blitzo]

So, the new submarine I believe is 09IIIB, but it serves as a useful demonstration showing just how much SSN floor space the two new assembly halls have, which I think I'll post in this thread given the work on the new Bohai facilities has mostly been posted in this thread in the past.

The eastern assembly hall has the 7.34m rail for SSN sized submarines and in a single building corridor they have floor space to accommodate four SSN sized boats with sufficient longitudinal and lateral clearance. But those 7.34m rails can also be used to form a 13.5m rail for larger submarines allowing a diameter larger submarine to be accommodated at expense of four SSN sized floor spots. There are three building corridors in the eastern hall, so if they chose to only build SSNs, they technically have floor space for 12 SSNs simultaneously.

The southern assembly hall only has the 7.34m rail for SSN sized submarines, without a 13.5m rail option (due to the lateral spacing between where the 7.34m rails are positioned from each other). The building corridors in the southern assembly hall similarly has floor space to accommodate four SSN sized boats, but it "only" has two building corridors, meaning it can "only" has floor space for 8 SSNs simultaneously. But the greater lateral spacing between the 7.34m rails I suspect are intended to enable more efficient and faster assembly of SSN sized boats than the eastern hall.

All up, if the eastern hall was fully occupied with only building SSN sized boats, and the southern hall was fully occupied, then there is floor space enough in the assembly halls to accommodate work on 20 SSN sized boats simultaneously.

 

[Jason_]

i

if you have only torpedos you must follow your targets when they are moving (perhaps at 30knots, a terrible speed for silencing or in an area with poor acoustic environment to hide in) until the first wave of attack.

But if you have long-range missiles(e.g. 1000km YJ-xx) you can just patrol the area and wait for commands. That makes SSNs much more survivable and flexible. No ASW airplanes or ships can kill a submarine 1000km away.
(Yes I’m repeating myself)

Except that at 1000km the sub is completely reliant on off board sensors for targeting. Part of what make subs so attractive is the fact that it can track targets nearly indefinitely and is a completely self-contained system that don't require external support.

 

[overview]

So, the new submarine I believe is 09IIIB, but it serves as a useful demonstration showing just how much SSN floor space the two new assembly halls have, which I think I'll post in this thread given the work on the new Bohai facilities has mostly been posted in this thread in the past.

The eastern assembly hall has the 7.34m rail for SSN sized submarines and in a single building corridor they have floor space to accommodate four SSN sized boats with sufficient longitudinal and lateral clearance. But those 7.34m rails can also be used to form a 13.5m rail for larger submarines allowing a diameter larger submarine to be accommodated at expense of four SSN sized floor spots. There are three building corridors in the eastern hall, so if they chose to only build SSNs, they technically have floor space for 12 SSNs simultaneously.

The southern assembly hall only has the 7.34m rail for SSN sized submarines, without a 13.5m rail option (due to the lateral spacing between where the 7.34m rails are positioned from each other). The building corridors in the southern assembly hall similarly has floor space to accommodate four SSN sized boats, but it "only" has two building corridors, meaning it can "only" has floor space for 8 SSNs simultaneously. But the greater lateral spacing between the 7.34m rails I suspect are intended to enable more efficient and faster assembly of SSN sized boats than the eastern hall.

All up, if the eastern hall was fully occupied with only building SSN sized boats, and the southern hall was fully occupied, then there is floor space enough in the assembly halls to accommodate work on 20 SSN sized boats simultaneously.

View attachment 88683View attachment 88684

This is too over but really interesting...

 

[antiterror13]

Interesting and whether this guy has enough credibility

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525368427409309697

 

[BoraTas]

Interesting and whether this guy has enough credibility

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525368427409309697

No he is not. He also routinely posts fan made CGI without stating it. But he posts a lot of PLA things so he is worth following. You just have to ignore his content about future platforms unless he is providing resources.

Speaking of the sub in the picture, it is basically a generic "cigar" shaped sub with the sail of the 039D. I don't think it will resemble the 095. Though I would like to see angled midship torpedo tubes on the 095 as it allows for a much larger bow sonar.

 

[The Observer]

Interesting and whether this guy has enough credibility

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525368427409309697

think of him as "when Minnie Chan goes to Twitter" credible.