SinoSoldier
Colonel
What military observers call the "Type 093B" exhibits structural differences compared to the Type 093 and thus should have some major improvements. Its unofficial designation is not implicit of a lineage from the Type 093.
09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread
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What military observers call the "Type 093B" exhibits structural differences compared to the Type 093 and thus should have some major improvements. Its unofficial designation is not implicit of a lineage from the Type 093.
Of course type 093G should have significant improvements over type 093. But IMO it will be much better for china if they have develop a complete new SSN, taken into account the significant noise difference betwen type 093 and the western/russian SSN´s.
I'm not sure how much of the noise difference is due to "design differences" between classes and how much is due to equipment and machinery not being as silent as they could be.
There might be a lot of improvement possible just by exchanging some parts for more silent versions, fixing a lot of small problems, improving manufacturing tolerances and applying additional noise dampening measures.
I would not be surprised if a later production submarine from the same class had very different noise levels than an earlier build even if you could not tell them apart just by looking.
I guess we will never know unless someone leaks newer information about the noise levels of chinese submarines.
What makes you think they won't develop a new SSN after 093G?
We are also assuming that 093G will feature the same degree of noise as 093 -- it's very plausible that in the almost ten years that since the first two 093s were built and the first 093G was constructed, that they've made substantial gains in all manner of internals, and that they are applying those new technologies on the same hull configuration.
In other words, I wouldn't count out 093G as not having substantial improvements versus the standard two 093s.
Of course they will develop a new SSN after type 093G. Eventually, sooner or later. No nation can have the same military equipment indefinetly. The issue is that if type 93G is the only SSN coming out the next few years. It takes a long time to develop SSN´s. It will be much better for china if they have developed a complete new SSN instead of an improvement of type 093, however big it is.
I didnt said that. In fact, i said exactly the opposite.
To be honest we don't know how long it will take for 093G to be succeeded by 095 in terms of production. It took almost a decade for 093G production to resume after the initial two 093s ended -- I don't expect there to be as substantial of a lag between 093G and 095.
Other questions we don't know, is whether 093G is currently on the cutting edge of what China's nuclear submarine industry can produce, or if they are actually capable of building better but the Navy are choosing to be a little more conservative and wait a little while for a few technologies to mature before applying them (say, on 095).
If 093Gs are the only new SSN design that the Navy will come out with for a decade or so, then I agree that would be a bit of a concern -- but less of an issue if they briskly proceed to a true next generation SSN design in 095 within two or three years.
Sure, but you also said: "taken into account the significant noise difference betwen type 093 and the western/russian SSN´s."... so what you're saying is kind of confusing, as that statement makes it sound like you think 093G will still have the same noise levels as the first two 093s designed and built in the late 90s.
type 93 has a significant noise difference to modern western/russian SSN´s. There is a limit to how much you can upgrade a submarine design (outsider and inside a hull). Thats why i said that it would be much better that china built a completely new SSN design.
Well that is the point we disagree on -- we simply do not know how much of 093's original design that they have continued with in 093G.
093G externally appears quite different with 093; featuring a small hump, a more blended sail, and may also be a little longer than the old 093s.
093G's internals could be substantially different as well. They might have used a new or improved reactor, use of improved quietening technologies, improved construction methods with greater precision, all of which could add up to a much improved noise signature.
In other words, the fact that 093G is "only a variant" of the 093 "design" is not very useful in trying to determine the ballpark of where 093G may sit in terms of acoustic stealth, because we do not know how much of the original 093's design features that may have led to its original noise levels (however loud or quiet it might have been) were actually retained and how many were improved.
According to a recent UK defense media, China hasn't really construct the next gen SSN, SSBN is China still lacking in certain technical areas.
For one, current China's sub diameter is 1/3 less than western or Russia counterpart. The reason is China hasn't master the single hull , wide diameter and its associated welding tech yet. Such new technique with wider diameter will enable it to get rid of its hump of 094.
Even the recent 093G has same diameter as the 093 only with added length.
For one, current China's sub diameter is 1/3 less than western or Russia counterpart. The reason is China hasn't master the single hull , wide diameter and its associated welding tech yet. Such new technique with wider diameter will enable it to get rid of its hump of 094.
Even the recent 093G has same diameter as the 093 only with added length.
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Hyperwarp
Captain
1/3 less diameter? That is substantial. So maybe thats why PRC SSN/SSBN are considered noisier. At another forum I read that the larger the sub the more room it has to dissipate internal noise.