09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[BoraTas]

Was this shared here? This was allegedly a souvenir ordered by the Huludao Shipyard. My opinion is it looks real (not CGI) and it looks like a high-quality and detailed souvenir. Pump-jet and 12 VLS tubes are visible. The sonar looks like cylinderical array and there is no hint of sophisticated shaping of the hull as we see on Taigei or Dreadnough. Its inner hull is almost as big as the outer hull which means large internal space.

 

[Maikeru]

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Photo file too large to upload.

 

[james smith esq]

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[Hendrik_2000]

I know this picture has been posted before but the part about vertical launch silos just behind the sail is new? Is that what everybody has been discussing?

Images obtained by Reuters from private satellite imagery provider Planet Labs and others circulating on social media show the submarine in a dry dock in Huludao Port in Liaoning province.

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Satellite images from April 24 to May 4, 2022, confirm that a probable nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) was in drydock at a shipyard at Huludao Port in northeast China, about 430km east of Beijing.
Greenish covers shroud areas behind its superstructure and stern - parts of the vessel that could house missile launch tubes and a new, quieter propulsion system, analysts said. Such clear images of submarines in dry dock are seldom seen.


The submarine was out of the water between April 24 and May 4, and was later seen mostly submerged in the same place after the dry dock was flooded.

Singapore-based security scholar Collin Koh said there was a great deal of interest in the prospect of a new class of Chinese Type 093 "hunter-killer" submarine with vertical launch tubes for guided missiles. But he said the recent satellite images were too limited to definitively identify the vessel.

 

[Blitzo]

Was this shared here? This was allegedly a souvenir ordered by the Huludao Shipyard. My opinion is it looks real (not CGI) and it looks like a high-quality and detailed souvenir. Pump-jet and 12 VLS tubes are visible. The sonar looks like cylinderical array and there is no hint of sophisticated shaping of the hull as we see on Taigei or Dreadnough. Its inner hull is almost as big as the outer hull which means large internal space.
View attachment 88583

The importance of external shaping is not as big of an issue as internal suppression measures, and even externally we can see the signs of sail blending consistent with more contemporary submarines including global other types, as well as recent 09IIIA variants.

If the model does end up being found to be representative of a real submarine (and imo it is most consistent with what the notional 09IIIB would look like), the general configuration and shape is more useful than reading too much into specific details.

 

[Blitzo]

I know this picture has been posted before but the part about vertical launch silos just behind the sail is new? Is that what everybody has been discussing?

Images obtained by Reuters from private satellite imagery provider Planet Labs and others circulating on social media show the submarine in a dry dock in Huludao Port in Liaoning province.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Satellite images from April 24 to May 4, 2022, confirm that a probable nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) was in drydock at a shipyard at Huludao Port in northeast China, about 430km east of Beijing.
Greenish covers shroud areas behind its superstructure and stern - parts of the vessel that could house missile launch tubes and a new, quieter propulsion system, analysts said. Such clear images of submarines in dry dock are seldom seen.


The submarine was out of the water between April 24 and May 4, and was later seen mostly submerged in the same place after the dry dock was flooded.

Singapore-based security scholar Collin Koh said there was a great deal of interest in the prospect of a new class of Chinese Type 093 "hunter-killer" submarine with vertical launch tubes for guided missiles. But he said the recent satellite images were too limited to definitively identify the vessel.

It's too early to tell if it is for VLS.

It might be, but at the same time, the covered location corresponds with the location on 09IIIA where the towed array sonar "hump" is as well.




We need to see what it looks like without the green tarp with a higher quality image.

Ideally, if we ever see open VLS cells in that location on satellite images, that would naturally confirm that the area is for VLS.



It is also of course important for us to recall that having VLS has been a long term expectation for 09IIIB, and that in terms of timing, we've expected the first 09IIIB to be launched some years prior to the first 09V.

 

[Blitzo]

Comparison of the new satellite image with the mystery SSN model.... some of the "possible features" looks like they might correspond to the model (VLS, pumpjet, overall configuration of sail etc).... but they're also very generic, and as I wrote in my previous post, the location of the "amidships VLS location" is the same as where the TAS on 09IIIA is located, and the "pumpjet" could just be a normal propeller that has a large cover for it. The sail and diving plane locations are also the same as where normal 09IIIA family are, it seems to me.




edit:
Added with satellite image of 09IIIA, showing how it also has a small hump in the same location, which is for the TAS.




Length estimate using the new satellite image.

110m overall or thereabouts, 09III family length.

 

[Kalec]

New photo of the model.

Someone argued that it might be a generic model based on 095 in its early design stage.

Weibo Source: 航空EXIA

 

[wssth0306]

Here the thing about the SSBN and SSN , if you look at the US and UK navy generation as an example , we should expect a 10 year in between when the last of the previous class been built to when the new class is been built ,and almost a 20 years of service for the each sub if not more.
It also a weapon system that likes to be more conservatives about the technology it employs , over the last decade we have seen many submarine models that has a towerless or almost towerless , yet none is put in service.

Type 093 and 094 entered service last decade , and still been built, I would not expect a new class of Chinese nuclear subs enter service until the 2030s .
My guess is , right now it still in development ,optimistically what we are seen are prototypes, sub systems of different system by fitting them on existing hulls, or smaller test subs. It just one of those weapon system that has a long development cycle.
I don't think there is a reason to think any hulls of type 095 is been built right now , if any of us is lucky we might see about 4 generations of SSBNs for a given country over our life time. So in my opinion expectations about the new class should be set lower.

 

[AndrewS]

Here the thing about the SSBN and SSN , if you look at the US and UK navy generation as an example , we should expect a 10 year in between when the last of the previous class been built to when the new class is been built ,and almost a 20 years of service for the each sub if not more.
It also a weapon system that likes to be more conservatives about the technology it employs , over the last decade we have seen many submarine models that has a towerless or almost towerless , yet none is put in service.

Type 093 and 094 entered service last decade , and still been built, I would not expect a new class of Chinese nuclear subs enter service until the 2030s .
My guess is , right now it still in development ,optimistically what we are seen are prototypes, sub systems of different system by fitting them on existing hulls, or smaller test subs. It just one of those weapon system that has a long development cycle.
I don't think there is a reason to think any hulls of type 095 is been built right now , if any of us is lucky we might see about 4 generations of SSBNs for a given country over our life time. So in my opinion expectations about the new class should be set lower.

The US and UK have mature nuclear submarine classes which are/were the quietist.
In comparison, the Chinese Type-093 and Type-094 are mostly definitely not comparable to the Astute or Virginia.

A more useful comparison would be the Soviet experience, when they iterated newer nuclear submarine design much faster because they had to catch up.