09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Biscuits]

I think they’re mostly keeping them around to keep the technology alive. As a lone platform, there’s nothing wrong with them, but doctrinally it’s clear that they are more of an afterthought.

There is for example no initiative to port cutting edge technology from the conventional fleet to them.

The nuclear strategy has always been focused on interception and defense first. The reasoning is fairly simple. If SSBNs are used, it means the war is already lost, the only thing left to do is to also destroy the enemy as well.

Nuke proof and ABM covered silos can do the same thing, but they can also shelter people and reduce enemy attacks, which is the only way a nuclear war could potentially be won. SSBNs were required in the early Cold War due to the poor range and characteristic of the land based missiles.

 

[Broccoli]

I think they’re mostly keeping them around to keep the technology alive. As a lone platform, there’s nothing wrong with them, but doctrinally it’s clear that they are more of an afterthought.

There is for example no initiative to port cutting edge technology from the conventional fleet to them.

The nuclear strategy has always been focused on interception and defense first. The reasoning is fairly simple. If SSBNs are used, it means the war is already lost, the only thing left to do is to also destroy the enemy as well.

Nuke proof and ABM covered silos can do the same thing, but they can also shelter people and reduce enemy attacks, which is the only way a nuclear war could potentially be won. SSBNs were required in the early Cold War due to the poor range and characteristic of the land based missiles.

That is known as deterrence.

Countries what can't build proper quiet SSBN's are building big numbers of land based ICBM's and if nukes are flying you have probably already lost the war anyhow.

 

[Biscuits]

That is known as deterrence.

Countries what can't build proper quiet SSBN's are building big numbers of land based ICBM's and if nukes are flying you have probably already lost the war anyhow.

ABM and advanced defenses can let you possibly survive a nuclear exchange, while SSBN cannot. They’re for countries that don’t know how to make ICBM long ranged enough to hit what they want to hit, and/or for countries that know a fortress strategy is technologically unfeasible.

Assuming the 094s use the same quieting tricks as the 093s, they’re quite good in a vacuum. But again, they’ve hardly emphasized their development.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

From Tom Shugart
For those who've been wondering how many PLAN Jin (Type 094) SSBNs have been launched - i.e., whether the two in recent imagery of the Bohai shipyard were hulls 5 and 6 or older ones back for service, well here's your answer, courtesy of the new 2019 DoD Military Power report.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

ABM and advanced defenses can let you possibly survive a nuclear exchange, while SSBN cannot. They’re for countries that don’t know how to make ICBM long ranged enough to hit what they want to hit, and/or for countries that know a fortress strategy is technologically unfeasible.

Assuming the 094s use the same quieting tricks as the 093s, they’re quite good in a vacuum. But again, they’ve hardly emphasized their development.

I don't buy this ABM is unreliable GDM is only 60% reliable So there will always be leaker that pass thru. SLBM is the definite deterrence because it will ensure retaliation and mutual destruction. Silo based missile are vulnerable to decapitating attack
whereas SLBM is hard to find and no body know where they are
We now know that type 94 is operational now

 

[Biscuits]

As far as public data goes, the DN long range interceptors have been well functioning. Compared to GDM, they reach further into orbit and can also double as ASAT. The technologies should be quite different. HQ-19s in the back help give extra cover.

Right now, ABM is not reliable enough to tank and win an exchange against America, but against a lesser nuclear power like India or NK, it can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

With OTH early warning satellites, any strategy based on surprise falls apart, unless the target is undeveloped, but even the lesser nuclear powers have some degree of early warning.

The only way to win is to intercept incoming missiles. SSBNs don’t help with that, they can only help lobbing more missiles at the enemy, but unless you are a lesser nuclear power or without high end rocket tech, that is not an issue.

Having good SSBN is better than having none, and it is a good thing that the 094s exist. But it is no way to completely base a forward thinking nuclear strategy.

 

[ougoah]

It doesn't matter how perfected your ABM methods and equipment are against known threats. There are also unknown threats and total numbers of warheads and ballistic missiles are also kept secret. Even with a perfectly functioning Chinese ABM, we cannot be sure the numbers can match the total threat. It's also not wise to overspend on ABM preparing for nuclear war when things are not moving in that direction. Limited ABM to work on the technologies is fine and particularly useful against smaller nuclear nations but MAD and deterrence is far more resource effective against the main nuclear nations.

 

[antiterror13]

From Tom Shugart
For those who've been wondering how many PLAN Jin (Type 094) SSBNs have been launched - i.e., whether the two in recent imagery of the Bohai shipyard were hulls 5 and 6 or older ones back for service, well here's your answer, courtesy of the new 2019 DoD Military Power report.
View attachment 52173

15? .. I counted only 12? (2+4 093x and 6 094x), what are the other 3 ?

 

[Tam]

Posted by LKJ86 at the PDF.

 

[by78]

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