075 LHD thread

[SinoSoldier]

The LHA's construction might be perhaps even imminent, seeing that the production of Type 071 has been stalled.

 

[getready]

I am not surprised by the tonnage at all. At the end of the day I strongly believe that China sees the better value and flexibility of prioritizing large LHDs over CVs given their situation and goals.

LHDs are essentially light carriers even for China which does not have V/STOL aircraft (nor any in development that we know of), they will just use UAVs. I won't be surprised if China's first LHD comes CATOBAR equipped for UAVs.

Can u elaborate on the those situation and goals? Why would large lhd be so important compared to a carrier which I think is essential for a true blue water navy. And that is the goal of PLAN, no?

I thought china is going full speed on CVs now, dun think they will give priority over the carriers. The lack of helo and stovl planes also factor into that IMO. Although same can be said for j-15.

 

[Jeff Head]

This is in the 2013 DoD report on china´s military:

It appears that they are certain that china will build a LHA in the next years. Googling type 081 class, do you think that the ship will be at 20000t displacement? or perhabs it will be bigger?

The report indicates that such a vessel could start building in the next five years...which, if it was five years out before it started, then it will be 8-9 years before it is launched and another year before it is commissioned. So, ten years out.

I persaonlly believe it will be sooner than that.

I also believe that the Chinese leadership have indicated that the vessel will be significantly larger than 20,000 tons. Closer to 40,000 is what they have indicated.

Time will tell.

 

[PanAsian]

Can u elaborate on the those situation and goals? Why would large lhd be so important compared to a carrier which I think is essential for a true blue water navy. And that is the goal of PLAN, no?

I thought china is going full speed on CVs now, dun think they will give priority over the carriers. The lack of helo and stovl planes also factor into that IMO. Although same can be said for j-15.

Realistically China would only go to full scale war over Taiwan, or if attacked itself. Likely limited wars would revolve around the territorial disputes China has with its immediate neighbors, the ones over islands in the East China Sea and South China Sea will involve the navy. The US may get involved opposing China in any of these scenarios. The likely primary opponent in full scale war would be Taiwan, in limited war Japan, Vietnam, and the Philippines.

In wartime, China can cover its naval assets within the 1st island chain with land based aircraft. Beyond the 1st island chain a Chinese carrier/CVBG is of limited additional effect compared to surface forces in a Taiwan scenario with limited survivability against the aircraft, missiles, subs, and other naval forces likely to be arrayed against it. In the limited war scenarios a Chinese CVBG not only faces the same practical limitations but can also be construed as overkill leading to further escalation which China does not want.

In peacetime a Chinese carrier is mainly useful for training and maybe goodwill visits. LHDs can do the same and are better at disaster relief, other forms of humanitarian assistance, citizen evacuation, etc. In the likely war scenarios, LHDs being able to rapidly deliver ground forces in flanking manoeuvres with rotary close air support to plant the flag is much more applicable and flexible than just having a carrier air wing close by.

At this point the Chinese helo force and industry both need a boost which building LHDs will support. The Chinese flanker force and industry are fine with or without a big demand for the navalized versions. The Chinese naval fleet and shipbuilding industry are also fine with or without additional carriers, or LHDs for that matter, but LHDs should be cheaper. Acquiring the Varyag and refurbishing it into the Liaoning was an opportunistic move which was also a learning opportunity when the Chinese shipbuilding industry was a lot less capable than it is now.

 

[asif iqbal]

What's the Chinese LHD going to take? Naval Z10, no problem they can add flotation devices and water resistance easily

Next they need medium lift, new Z8Y is a great helo, looks much like the AC313, can take 25 marines so fits the bill

Z9C another great helo, say what you want but it's a fine little helo for LHD too

Then we can add in Z15 too, so that's already a mix of 3-4 helos sufficient for a LHD, plus production is not a issue either

Only thing it won't have is a ultra heavys, like the Sea Stallion and Chinnoks

 

[shen]

an armored assault transport helicopter like Ka-29 would be nice to have. watching videos of WZ-10 in exercise, it seems to follow the Western doctrine of nap the earth and standoff missile attack, so probably not that heavily armored. when you have to go into a hot landing zone, nothing beats armor.

 

[MwRYum]

an armored assault transport helicopter like Ka-29 would be nice to have. watching videos of WZ-10 in exercise, it seems to follow the Western doctrine of nap the earth and standoff missile attack, so probably not that heavily armored. when you have to go into a hot landing zone, nothing beats armor.

Until Z-10 gets the up-engine treatment there's little room for it to be fattened...ie. getting better armor and weapons.

Also, a navalized version of the Z-10 needs to reinforce against humidity and salt corrosion, and that's unavoidably add extra weight.

 

[delft]

Realistically China would only go to full scale war over Taiwan, or if attacked itself. Likely limited wars would revolve around the territorial disputes China has with its immediate neighbors, the ones over islands in the East China Sea and South China Sea will involve the navy. The US may get involved opposing China in any of these scenarios. The likely primary opponent in full scale war would be Taiwan, in limited war Japan, Vietnam, and the Philippines.

China's sovereignty over Taiwan is recognized by all countries except for half a dozen mini-states. Thus China has the legal authority to close the ports and airports of Taiwan. No ship owner, to give one example, would dare send his tanker to the Island. End of play for the Taiwan independence games. So no full scale war unless the US were to attack China.

 

[Lion]

an armored assault transport helicopter like Ka-29 would be nice to have. watching videos of WZ-10 in exercise, it seems to follow the Western doctrine of nap the earth and standoff missile attack, so probably not that heavily armored. when you have to go into a hot landing zone, nothing beats armor.

I know this is not WZ-10 but I think lots of you have perhaps the wrong perception about WZ-10...
Since WZ-10 helo is in the same class as Euro Tiger. I do not see why WZ-10 is not able to perform the same role or have similar specs as EuroTiger or even consider under armour or not able to enter hot zone and perform close air support?

Design

The Tiger is capable of undertaking a wide range of combat missions, including armed reconnaissance and surveillance, anti-tank and close air support, escort and protection of friendly assets; and can operate during day or night in all-weather conditions, and has been designed to include operations in the aftermath of nuclear, biological, or chemical warfare.

The fuselage is armoured and was developed to withstand small arms fire and 23 mm (0.91 in) cannon rounds

Eurotiger is in the class of 6tons and has the same output of power of turboshaft as WZ-10 of 1300shp.
WZ-10 is also in the class of 6tons with same 1300shp.

This is the recent data from China aerospace propulson summit organised by AVIC in Liaoning.

The very obvious of WZ-10 is fixed with a heavy machine gun is intended for this helo to perform close air support and entering the hot zone filled with possible small arms. And I do not think this helo designer will make it under armour or inferior than EuroTiger and be easily shot down by GMPG or 0.5 calibre easily.

EuroTiger has so far participated in many ops like libya , Afghanistan and Mali. I do not believe they are using it as a standoff missile shooting platform. Even the Apache has hellfire missile for stand off fighting capabilities but does it make it looks like its main purpose is more for stand off missile shooting flying platform?

I think Apache is in a all different league class of Helo under 10tons weight. It will be unfair to compare a 6tons WZ-10 to it and claimed as under armour.

 

[tphuang]

Please get back to LHD rather than WZ-10.