056 class FFL/corvette

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sealordlawrence

Junior Member
Re: »Ø¸´: Re: Type 056 OPV/Corvette

tphuang said:
This may surprise you, but PLAN does believe in using submarine chasers in green water ASW operations. They are going to have plenty of submarines and aircraft near by that can fire at enemy submarines when located
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In that case the PLAN is going to struggle to find Green water submarines. It requires helicopters and very high end sensors and the archaic notion of the submarine chaser is not going to provide that. The reality seems to be that the PLAN is replicating the role being undertaken by 3 other existing maritime agencies.

yes, it'd be better if they can send something like 054A carrying Z-9Cs out there to do the same job. But they need a cheaper option that has the range of patrolling all of south china sea and east china sea. These ships can should be able to do that (currently, it's been done by Jianghu). And honestly, again the navies in ASEAN countries, something even lightly equipped like 056 is more than enough. What do you really need against Philippines, Cambodia and Indonesia?
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Based on current South Sea fleet inventory it requires multiple DDGs and FFGs.
 
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joshuatree

Captain
Re: »Ø¸´: Re: Type 056 OPV/Corvette

sealordlawrence said:
It depends how big ones UAV is, but it still needs a hangar and a UAV's effectiveness is often related in some part to its size. For most maritime applications I suspect that a crew would still be desired.
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Just a superficial comparison of the US Navy's MQ-8B to the Z9 shows physically it's about half the size but it's able to carry sensors and armament.

I think with UAVs, you don't need a very large hangar, heck a garage would sound about right. So I think it's possible to do that on the 056. The larger heli pad would permit manned helicopters to land if needed.


sealordlawrence said:
In that case the PLAN is going to struggle to find Green water submarines. It requires helicopters and very high end sensors and the archaic notion of the submarine chaser is not going to provide that. The reality seems to be that the PLAN is replicating the role being undertaken by 3 other existing maritime agencies.



Based on current South Sea fleet inventory it requires multiple DDGs and FFGs.
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Since the presumed service area of the 056 is the first island chain, I fail to see why the heavy expectations of its ASW capabilities. You can easily have anti-sub planes work in conjunction.


I don't see this ship replicating the other agencies. What ship in their respective fleets have similar armament to the 056?
 
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sealordlawrence

Junior Member
»Ø¸´: Type 056 OPV/Corvette

Joshuatree,

MQ-8B is extremely limited in its utility precisely due to its limited size, a better comparison would be the MH-60R. A small UAV can never offer the same capabilities that a manned helicopter can.

The area within the first Island chain is littered with Submarines, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan all operate SSK fleets (Japan is enlarging theirs) and Australian SSK's are known to operate a long way North. Not to mention that China's ASW aircraft fleet is pitiful.

The armament of the 056 may be greater than that of an OPV but it still offers very little.
 
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Schumacher

Senior Member
Re: »Ø¸´: Type 056 OPV/Corvette

sealordlawrence said:
Joshuatree,

MQ-8B is extremely limited in its utility precisely due to its limited size, a better comparison would be the MH-60R. A small UAV can never offer the same capabilities that a manned helicopter can.
.............
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How about a few small UAVs vs a manned helicopter ?
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
Re: »Ø¸´: Re: Type 056 OPV/Corvette

sealordlawrence said:
All this ship is is an OPV with some light warship trappings and it is difficult to see what purpose it is intended to undertake that the multiple other maritime agencies do not already.
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I would hazard a guess that the 056 will be used to show the flag and exercise PRC's sovereignty in disputed waters, particularly around Diaoyutai/Senkaku, the Paracels and Spratlys.

The 056 would be more powerfully armed as compared to regional coast guard vessels. Even against Vietnam and Malaysia's warships (these are 2 of the countries with competing claims to Spratlys. Vietnam claims Paracels too), the 056 doesn't fare too badly especially considering that the 056 can be mass produced so that several can be deployed to the huge expanse of waters at any 1 time.
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: »Ø¸´: Type 056 OPV/Corvette

Schumacher said:
How about a few small UAVs vs a manned helicopter ?
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Not as effective, as you need the extra size of a large helicopter to carry all of the sensors (where are you going to put a hundred sonobuoys in the back of a UAV?), and the processors required to handle all of your sensors. And don't forget about the generators needed to keep all of these systems powered, and of course, the weapons.
 
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joshuatree

Captain
Re: »Ø¸´: Re: Type 056 OPV/Corvette

sealordlawrence said:
Joshuatree,

MQ-8B is extremely limited in its utility precisely due to its limited size, a better comparison would be the MH-60R. A small UAV can never offer the same capabilities that a manned helicopter can.

The area within the first Island chain is littered with Submarines, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan all operate SSK fleets (Japan is enlarging theirs) and Australian SSK's are known to operate a long way North. Not to mention that China's ASW aircraft fleet is pitiful.

The armament of the 056 may be greater than that of an OPV but it still offers very little.
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I wasn't trying to compare the capabilities of the MQ-8B but rather its physical size.

Ultimately, I think its unreasonable to expect capabilities of a larger frigate or destroyer on a corvette/OPV. If that could be done, it would make frigates and destroyers obsolete.

Even if the 056 offers little more that an OPV as you suggest, it would still be a vast improvement over the Jianghu. Modern systems with automation should reduce crew sizes, improve efficiency, and increase reliability/resiliency.

Also, while everyone laments a lack of a hangar, don't the Jiangwei's carry a Z9 on the pad itself? What prevents this type of deployment for the 056? It would be much faster to build these vessels, maybe even at lesser shipyards, to modernize the PLAN fleet and permit the newer frigates/destroyers to perform long range deployments or form CBGs.

Spartan95 said:
I would hazard a guess that the 056 will be used to show the flag and exercise PRC's sovereignty in disputed waters, particularly around Diaoyutai/Senkaku, the Paracels and Spratlys.

The 056 would be more powerfully armed as compared to regional coast guard vessels. Even against Vietnam and Malaysia's warships (these are 2 of the countries with competing claims to Spratlys. Vietnam claims Paracels too), the 056 doesn't fare too badly especially considering that the 056 can be mass produced so that several can be deployed to the huge expanse of waters at any 1 time.
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I agree with this line of thought. Disputed areas do not always permit a heavy handed presence. What would sailing a CBG as an example around Diaoyotai or Spratlys convey to other countries? Whereas a smaller corvette would show the flag but in a more discrete manner.
 
duskylim

duskylim

Junior Member
VIP Professional
For me the 056 design is just too limited.

The forward 76 mm rapid-fire gun is a good weapon, well-suited to the ship's role, but the 4-box launcher missile load for a ship of her tonnage is just too small.

That lack of armament seems to be a disturbing trend in the newer PLAN vessels.

That is quite unlike the PLAN's policy with the older Luda class DDG's, DDG's 112 and 113 and DDG 167, which despite their limited size and displacement (especially compared to the 054A class of FFG's) were armed with 16 box launchers for the YJ-8x series Anti-ship missiles, (and perhaps the CY-1 anti-submarine rocket) - although most other armament (especially AAW and ASW) was limited to say the least.

This ship should mount from 8 to 12 box-launchers with a load out of say 8 AShM and 4 ASW missiles.

To be more effective in dealing with multiple axes attack from AShM's, another 2 RAM-like missile launchers should also be mounted on either beam, so complete coverage can be attained.

Further the open space on the bridge's roof can be mounted with more sensors or fire control radars.

The after block should be enlarged to form a helicopter hangar, and at least 2 AK-630's should be mounted in addition to a couple of chaff/decoy launchers.

The hull should have bow, conformal and the stern a towed-array set of sonars.

Of course the price of the resultant vessel (rather akin to an Israeli Saar 5 class corvette), would rocket.

He he he...
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
duskylim said:
For me the 056 design is just too limited.

The forward 76 mm rapid-fire gun is a good weapon, well-suited to the ship's role, but the 4-box launcher missile load for a ship of her tonnage is just too small.

That lack of armament seems to be a disturbing trend in the newer PLAN vessels.

That is quite unlike the PLAN's policy with the older Luda class DDG's, DDG's 112 and 113 and DDG 167, which despite their limited size and displacement (especially compared to the 054A class of FFG's) were armed with 16 box launchers for the YJ-8x series Anti-ship missiles, (and perhaps the CY-1 anti-submarine rocket) - although most other armament (especially AAW and ASW) was limited to say the least.

This ship should mount from 8 to 12 box-launchers with a load out of say 8 AShM and 4 ASW missiles.

To be more effective in dealing with multiple axes attack from AShM's, another 2 RAM-like missile launchers should also be mounted on either beam, so complete coverage can be attained.

Further the open space on the bridge's roof can be mounted with more sensors or fire control radars.

The after block should be enlarged to form a helicopter hangar, and at least 2 AK-630's should be mounted in addition to a couple of chaff/decoy launchers.

The hull should have bow, conformal and the stern a towed-array set of sonars.

Of course the price of the resultant vessel (rather akin to an Israeli Saar 5 class corvette), would rocket.

He he he...
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Should the 056 class is what'd replace the 037 class, it'd represent no small a leap in many ways. Physically a larger platform, with superior guns and certain level of helicopter operation capability, no doubt far more suited for low-intensity operations in South China Sea then the current boats.

As for UAV capabilities, since China has no UAV that could perform over-the-horizon targeting, UAV ain't too much a use for anti-shipping missions, and UAV ain't suitable for ASW operations, worry about UAV capabilities is unfound.

Also, likely they'd be deployed to the South Sea Fleet, 056 class could actually work well in rescue missions, provide offshore platform for Z-9 helicopters.
 
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