I think you're right.
056 class FFL/corvette
- Thread starter dingyibvs
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I think you're right.
WOW!! They are pumping them out fast. That new one is already hull number 5 or number 6 and the first one hasn't even finished the fitting stage yet, never mind sea trials. Although this is a new ship it's based on both mature design and technology. It's a downsized and modified Type 054A hull and probably with downsized and downgraded Type 054A technology on board and some unique systems of it's own. The PLAN must feel very confident that the design and technology would work well since they are mass producing them without even a sea trial of the first one. And based on the pictures i say it's about 60m to 65m long and probably less than a 1000 tons.
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joshuatree
Captain
I think some folks in the 054 thread are speculating it's hull 17 for the 054As, not hull 5 for the 056.
My bad i was too quick to speak, it's not a new Type 056. They are maybe right that it's a new Type 054A or it could be something else completely.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I think that the main reasons we are seeing 056s being pumped out in such numbers before even sea trails are as follows:
- As already pointed out, the 056 uses mostly mature and proven technology, Kinda like how the JF17 benefited from the J10 and the respective development cycles of those two.
- The nature and role of the 056 is well understood by the PLAN and Chinese ship builders. The PLAN has been a green/brown water navy for the vast majority of it's existence after all. It has probably as much operational knowledge and experience with littoral operations as any navy in the world, since that's pretty much all the PLAN did for decades until recently. As such, there was no need to build experimental and incremental improvement ship classes as they did up till the 054 and 052C - the PLAN and Chinese ship designers knew exactly what such a ship needs and how it should be design, so there is very little risk or ground breaking technologies or concepts involved.
- The number of recent territorial flare ups would undoubtably have hammered home the need for such ships as they would comfortably be able to handle anything most of the SEA countries could field, yet not escalate tensions as much as deploying even an 054A would. After all, I doubt the Chinese coast guard and other similar agencies particularly relished having their unarmed monitoring ships square off against the Philippines Navy's flagship recently.
- America's recent strategic 'pivot' to Asia Pacific would have also helped to secure additional funding and orders for 056s as the type's potent ASW potential is precisely what the PLAN currently desperately lacks at a time when the USN is planning to forward deploy most of it's tactical sub fleet to operate in the exact same waters the 056 is best placed to patrol.
- As already pointed out, the 056 uses mostly mature and proven technology, Kinda like how the JF17 benefited from the J10 and the respective development cycles of those two.
- The nature and role of the 056 is well understood by the PLAN and Chinese ship builders. The PLAN has been a green/brown water navy for the vast majority of it's existence after all. It has probably as much operational knowledge and experience with littoral operations as any navy in the world, since that's pretty much all the PLAN did for decades until recently. As such, there was no need to build experimental and incremental improvement ship classes as they did up till the 054 and 052C - the PLAN and Chinese ship designers knew exactly what such a ship needs and how it should be design, so there is very little risk or ground breaking technologies or concepts involved.
- The number of recent territorial flare ups would undoubtably have hammered home the need for such ships as they would comfortably be able to handle anything most of the SEA countries could field, yet not escalate tensions as much as deploying even an 054A would. After all, I doubt the Chinese coast guard and other similar agencies particularly relished having their unarmed monitoring ships square off against the Philippines Navy's flagship recently.
- America's recent strategic 'pivot' to Asia Pacific would have also helped to secure additional funding and orders for 056s as the type's potent ASW potential is precisely what the PLAN currently desperately lacks at a time when the USN is planning to forward deploy most of it's tactical sub fleet to operate in the exact same waters the 056 is best placed to patrol.
cn_habs
Junior Member
Mysterre
Banned Idiot
I actually think this class has a rather poor ASW potential as it cannot embark its own helo and as far as I can see it lacks a rear opening for TAS. And even if it did it does not have anything on board that could make TAS info actionable. It would have to radio other ships or helos to come in and do the dirtywork. It doesn't even have ASW rocket launchers commonly seen on many other PLAN designs, which to be fair aren't really useful these days anyway. The only ASW capability that this ship has are the usual flank triple torpedo launchers, which really are much more suited for self-defense than for offensive ASW. I think this ship could have been made into an excellent ASW design had it been built with a hangar, embarked ASW helo, and a TAS line, and its YJ-83 missiles replaced by ASW missiles. But then again I seriously doubt they intended this design to be used in ASW warfare.
That is surely a pleasant surprise!
Look who's back!
plawolf
Lieutenant General
This is a brown water ASW platform, which is very different from a fleet ASW platform for a carrier battle group. The 056 may not be able to embark a helo, but it clearly has a landing pad and would certainly have all the necessary facilities onboard to re-fuel, re-arm ASW helos based elsewhere.
Since it will mostly be operating relatively close to the coast, it should also be perfectly possible to embark helos on 056s by just strapping them down on the landing pad. Not ideal, but certainly an option during wartime conditions.
That big opening right smack bang in the middle of the stern looks far more like a TAS opening than the one on the 054A, yet we know the 054A has a TAS, so I really cannot see how you can claim it lacks such an opening.
In addition, you will notice that the helopad is raised far higher than is strictly necessary in terms of seaworthiness, and indeed is raised significantly higher than similar ships that do have the ability to embark a helo. The design of the 056 clear has the potential for adding a helo hanger if it was deemed as a high enough priority, and indeed, it looks like the 056s does have some hanger capacity, probably for lighter UAVs.
Now, lets leave aside the possibility that in the future, naval UAVs might be able to take over the ASW role currently handled by manned helos, you really need to ask yourself why the 056s went with such a design choice. To have a helo pad, a hanger, yet raise the aft deck so high that it cannot embark a helo.
The most obvious, and likely as far as I could determine, explanation would be that the capability to embark a helo was deemed secondary to the ability to mount a capable TSA and house the associated processing computers, especially when the 056s will most likely be operating within range of land based helos or be supported in the ASW role by future LHDs.
I cannot see how you could possible know enough about the internal layout of the ship to make such a claim from just the pictures we have seen. Now, unless you have some leaked blueprints or other additional information to back up that claim, I really cannot take that seriously at all.
As you said, ASW rockets are hardly all that effective in terms of taking out subs, and as far as I understand it, ASW rockets are fitted to large PLAN surface combatants as primarily a defensive weapon against incoming enemy fish.
As I have already pointed out, not having embarked ASW helos is not really much of an issue for the 056 taking into consideration where they would be operating; there is every indication that it has TAS and the back-end processing equipment to make best use of it, and I could see no fundamental technical barrier that would prevent the PLAN from replacing some or all of the YJ83 launchers with a future ASROC like weapon when that becomes available.
Indeed, that may have been part of the design when you consider the unnecessarily large number of YJ83s the 056 can carry.
For a ship of it's size and role, 4 AShMs would have been perfectly adequate. Leaving the space to have 8 means that compromises and sacrifices had to be made in other aspects of the design.
Once again, the 056's operating range should be considered, because they would be able to count on 022 FAC support in the vast majority of the places where they would be operating, and indeed, the 056s make excellent command shops for 022 wolf packs. Thus the choice for having so many AShMs is even more nagging if you think that they will be only used for AShMs.
However, if we consider for a moment the possibility that the 056s were designed with ASW as a core part of their design, the extra four missile slots would make a lot more sense if they were not intended for AShMs but ASROCs instead. With that, the 056s would retain their AShW capability when China's ASROC becomes available, but, together with helo pad, TAS and onboard systems, gain the ASW capabilities of far larger platforms at a fraction of the cost.
Sure the PLAN would also needed for specialized and capable ocean going ASW ships to support their future carrier fleets, but it would be far too expensive and wasteful to use such ships to protect China's vast coastline.
If you do consider the 056 to be China's first attempted at a modern primarily ASW platform, it would make more sense and be in keeping with the PLAN's evolutionary as opposed to revolutionary approach to ship development - it is far easier, cheaper and less risky to design a dedicated corvette first, see how it performs and then incorporate any lessons learnt from their design and operating into the design of a future ASW oriented FFG or DDG rather than start with a FFG or DDG and risk it becoming a bit of a dud.
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I believe this comment hits the nail on the head.
I believe the 056 will be a very effective Littoral Combatant for the PLAN, and that it will work very well in the ASW role. I believe it has a towwed array capability and with the landing pad can accomodate the helo.
It will either operate in a flotilla in conjunction with one or two older FFGs that do carry helo hangars, so those helos can shuttle between three off four 056s in larger operations, or it can carry its own helo and just not hangar it for individual missions.
In the littorals the sea states are not apt to make that absolutely necessary and the duration of missions there will mean that the helo will have ample opportunity to fly to hangered areas as necessary, while stayng with the 056 for the hunt. If it can land, be refueled and rearmed, and be lashed down if necessary, then it can serve the purpose for the littoral ASW mission.
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