056 class FFL/corvette

Jeff Head said:

We have had this discussion on a number of occasions.

Unless they increase the size of the hull, particularly in length, they have to give quite bit up to get a hanger on there.

Here's how the current sized Type 056, using 584 as an example, would look with a hanger large enough to accommodate a Z-9.

View attachment 31428 View attachment 31429

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It could look like that if the PLAN were ok with losing VDS/TAS, or it could look like my PS where they just increase the height of the rear deck to turn it into a hangar +/- lengthen the hull. I'm guessing that the majority of the current area of the ship underneath the aft mast and HHQ-10 launcher is being used up by the 2 torpedo rooms and the helipad observation/control station, both of which can be creatively relocated to maximize available space. The crew size would need to increase by at least 4 (2 pilots and 2 maintenance personnel).

joshuatree said:

The cheapest and least drastic design change for any 056B with a hangar would be to keep expectations in check and perhaps build a hangar only capable of accommodating helo drones such as the MQ-8 to increase the ship's ASW capability but not to such a point where essentially, a whole new ship design is required.

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This is definitely a possibility, though it would have to be somewhat beefier than the MQ-8B which may or may not be able to lift even a single ASW torpedo. It should ideally be able to load at least 1 ASW torpedo and a dipping sonar or a pack of sonobuoys and have an endurance of something like 4-5 hours on station. This would allow a sub-hunting wolfpack of 3-4 056Bs to constantly have a bird in the air.

Some questions about the helicopter capabilities of the current 056(A) and the way
they might get used:

- Does anyone know if the current version can refuel a helicopter ?
I guess the ship would need a separate tank for the correct type of fuel and some
refueling system (just a hose and a pump ?)

- If the ships are mainly used near the coast (and SCS island bases), is it practical
to just carry a helicopter normally based on land on the landing platform when needed ?

- If China doesn't have enough helicopters for all ships, would it make sense for 056(A)s
looking for submarines only asking for a helicopter once they have a suspicious sonar
signal ?

I can see a future Type-56C variant which ditches the ASW torpedo tubes and replaces it with a hanger for an ASW helicopter.

In terms of tactics, I can see a group of 2-3 corvettes/frigates working together to form an ASW hunter-killer group. They would have an ASW helicopter available locally, plus fixed wing MPAs on-call as well.

So you get a mutually supporting group in terms of triangulating sonars and which also makes it difficult for a submarine to attack a member of the group - as the other ship(s) will be out of range and able to respond quickly.

Fixed-wing ASW assets are normally a lot better and more cost-effective than helicopters.

AndrewS said:

IIn terms of tactics, I can see a group of 2-3 corvettes/frigates working together to form an ASW hunter-killer group. They would have an ASW helicopter available locally, plus fixed wing MPAs on-call as well.

So you get a mutually supporting group in terms of triangulating sonars and which also makes it difficult for a submarine to attack a member of the group - as the other ship(s) will be out of range and able to respond quickly.

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This is basically the type of thing I was outlining above...and I agree that there coul be a distinct advantage of have three Type 065 vessels, one with a hanger, performing such a task.

I reckon China would go with a defended sea lane type strategy rather than organise convoys.

China has a lot of cargo ships and wouldn't have much use for them anyway, as China's overseas trade would have dried up and those cargo ships have little military utility.

So China could afford to lose quite a few of them, whilst they would soak up scarce missiles and torpedoes, and also provide a datum for ASW efforts.

AndrewS said:

I reckon China would go with a defended sea lane type strategy rather than organise convoys.

China has a lot of cargo ships and wouldn't have much use for them anyway, as China's overseas trade would have dried up and those cargo ships have little military utility.

So China could afford to lose quite a few of them, whilst they would soak up scarce missiles and torpedoes, and also provide a datum for ASW efforts.

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If it was a major war...they would defend their shipping. Japan learned the folly of not doing so and over several years of warfare was literally strangled almost to death.

If it is a small regional conflict...not so much. But if it looked to be a large, long lasting maritime conflict...you bet they would convoy up and try and protect them.

schenkus said:

- Does anyone know if the current version can refuel a helicopter ?
I guess the ship would need a separate tank for the correct type of fuel and some
refueling system (just a hose and a pump ?)

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Almost certainly the 056 can refuel a helicopter. The only unknown is whether a 056 can rearm a helicopter (with torpedoes and sonobuoys, for example). The 056 would have to carry aviation fuel separately from the bunker fuel that it uses with its diesels.

schenkus said:

- If the ships are mainly used near the coast (and SCS island bases), is it practical
to just carry a helicopter normally based on land on the landing platform when needed ?

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This is probably the arrangement that exists now.

schenkus said:

- If China doesn't have enough helicopters for all ships, would it make sense for 056(A)s
looking for submarines only asking for a helicopter once they have a suspicious sonar
signal ?

Click to expand...

It could be done this way, but it certainly would not be tactically advisable. You want the helicopter you want to call on already in the air above you or at the very least sitting on your helipad on hot standby armed, fueled, and ready to take off immediately when contact is made. Calling for a helicopter sitting on a shore-based helipad will result in delays of possibly an hour or more before it reaches your location, by which time your target could easily have slipped away (or killed you).

AndrewS said:

I can see a future Type-56C variant which ditches the ASW torpedo tubes and replaces it with a hanger for an ASW helicopter.

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There is no need to ditch the ASW torpedoes:

By my reckoning this hangar is sized 4m width by 4.3m height, enough to fit a folded SH-60 at 3.3m by 4.1m.

BTW, there is no need for a C designation at this time, as in "056C". The 056 is the original version, the 056A is the VDS/TAS version, so the "056B" would be the version with a hangar, unless you know of some other intermediate version that we have not yet seen.

In WW2, Japan was a small resource-poor island that relied on seaborne shipping.

That applied even for domestic goods transport, so it was a big mistake not too protect merchant shipping.

In comparison, China today is a continental sized nation with significant land borders, so could get by without most of its seaborne trade.

Given that China will have a lot of Type-56, it still makes sense for China to defend shipping within the first island chain, but it's not essential.

The shipping route to/from neutral neighbouring Vietnam/Cambodia/Thailand - comes to mind.

AndrewS said:

In WW2, Japan was a small resource-poor island that relied on seaborne shipping.

That applied even for domestic goods transport, so it was a big mistake not too protect merchant shipping.

In comparison, China today is a continental sized nation with significant land borders, so could get by without most of its seaborne trade.

Given that China will have a lot of Type-56, it still makes sense for China to defend shipping within the first island chain, but it's not essential.

The shipping route to/from neutral neighbouring Vietnam/Cambodia/Thailand - comes to mind.

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Yep, especially when China fully establishes the Silk Road trading route.