056 class FFL/corvette

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AndrewS

Brigadier
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I agree the Type-56 would act as tripwires.

But I actually think an equally important function will be to act as an ASW node, because they can rely on other assets for Air Defence (Type-52, Type-55, AWACS, land-based fighters etc)

If I look at the publicly available documents on distributed ASW sensor systems from the USA - a Type-56 could cover a significant area with something similar. And these sensor systems look very inexpensive to me, so they can be widely deployed.

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Remember that the US Navy is moving to a doctrine of distributed sensing and lethality where the actual platform doesn't matter.

On this measure, China building large numbers of cheap Type-56 fits this doctrine very well.
 
J

Janiz

Senior Member
AndrewS said:
If I look at the publicly available documents on distributed ASW sensor systems from the USA - a Type-56 could cover a significant area with something similar. And these sensor systems look very inexpensive to me, so they can be widely deployed.
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Type 056 ships aren't there to fight on the Pacific - they're made for coastal waters. If they would be used in a conflict - they would get into action against smaller craft from other navies where they could compensate slightly weaker offensive capabilities with numbers. China has got some geographical obstacles and the biggest of them is the vast area of shallow continental shelf in the East China Sea. There's nothing they could do against conventional subs in such environment and the logical choice for Chinese navy is to break through the South China Sea to the Pacific and start the fight there where it's geographical limitations will be erased. Type 056 ships will be doing their small tasks in the coastal waters during the war. They aren't frontliners.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
AndrewS said:
A Type-56 is fundamentally unsuited for escort duty. It doesn't have a decent radar nor medium-range SAMs for AAW.

If you add this to a Type-56, you essentially get a Type-54 Frigate capability.
And there is a reason why the Type-54 has to be a lot bigger and heavier than the Type-56.
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That's not what I said. I said the 056 should have the capacity to double its existing SAMs.

If we go with your argument that there aren't enough escorts, then the defensive answer is to build more Type-54 frigates, not to build more Type-56.
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If there is enough money. 054s are also too much to serve as patrollers during peacetime. My idea for the 056s is to make the base version appropriate as patrollers during peacetime while the modified, or more accurately up-equipped with minimal modification a la the US LCS concept, versions will make them more survivable and more than just tripwires or cannon fodder in wartime while remaining cost effective.

The offensive answer would be to sink the submarine/ship resupply vessels and attack the opposing air/naval bases.

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Of course but China securing waters within the first island chain where the 056 will be operating is not guaranteed while it is guaranteed that China will need to operate more civilian or unarmed shipping there during wartime than its larger combatants can protect.

The Type-56 is probably around $50-60million? and would be a cheap platform to put ASW, UUV, UAV capabilities on.

We can already see the base design left space for a VDS to be retrofitted, so presumably there is some expansion space for the future.

Personally I'd like to see more hanger space on Chinese ships though
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As I pointed out before there is likely no space left on the 056As and the space left on 056s are under the helipad therefore having limited uses.

plawolf said:
I think you are making a fundamental logical mistep here.

You are taking a typical peacetime deployment 056 and throwing it into a total war zone scenario.

056s operate alone during peacetime for low intensity/risk patrols that are mostly about showing the flag.

If tensions ever got so high that actual combat was even a remote possibility, you will see those 056 patrols significantly beefed up with heavy support in the form of line combatants of 054A class and beyond acting as command ships backing up forward patrols of paired or even groups of 056s operating as a wolf pack.

The only scenario where an 056 would find itself so outnumbered as to need to take on 2-3 enemies at the same time or in quick succession is of someone decided to launch an alpha strike ambush.

If that was the case, it wouldn't really matter what asset was the subject of the ambush. It could be one 056, an 054A, 052D or even 055, if an enemy wants to launch a surprise attack, they would bring sufficient numbers and firepower to overwhelm their target.

The only hard counter against that is to deploy something like a full carrier
Strike group with more ships, fighters and firepower for an entire national navy and Air Force to take on.

Need I point out how absurd it would be to use that sort of heavy presence for routine patrols 'just in case'?

The current strategy is to use 056s almost as tripwires.

Anyone wanting to launch a surprise attack against China would need to get past the 055 screens first.

To leave the 056 would allow it to warn fleet command of an unusually large foreign force moving towards key Chinese fleet assets and put the juicy targets in high alert and also leave dangerous forces behind the ambushing force when they make their move. To attack the 056 would similarly tip their hand to such an attack.

It is better to loose a single 056 to such a sudden attack that a wolf pack or heavier, more important warship.

The primary job of the 056 is such a scenario would be to hold off long enough to get a warning off to the rest of the Chinese fleet. If they can inflict some damage on their ambushers, it's a bonus.

For the 056 it's not its own armaments that keep them safe from such attacks, but the promise of the terrible retribution the rest of the PLAN would inflict in turn on the aggressors.
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I think it would be very inefficient and likely ineffective use of resources for the 056 to be little more than tripwires or cannon fodder in wartime outside of limited SCS scenarios. Unless the PLAN intends to proliferate the 054s more than the 056s but see the counterpoints above.

The 056 is needed as a viable rear area patroller and escort for low value targets on its own terms in wartime due to the hemmed in nature of China's coastal waters, the proliferation of missile boats and SSKs useful for ambushes, and the highly likely equalizing or pre-occupation of China's other forces in contested waters within the first island chain.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The Type 056 is an excellent vessel for what the PLAN has in mind.

In ace time it is going t5o be patrolling the coastal areas of China...looking for incursions be they by foreign submarines, pirates, individuals violating fisheries or EEZs etc.

They are more than adequate for that task, particularly when you consider that they are within range of land based aircraft, particularly helicopters, to assist them.

The Chinese are not going to plan these missions and patrols in a vacuum. They will have contingencies and resources set up to assist these vessels if they are needed and called upon.

During wart time we would find mostly the same scenario, except more resource being made available.

In that case you may see grouping of two 056s coupled with a Type 054A to form a small task force for patrols where they fear more enemy units may be encountered, realizing that in the war time scenario the enemy unit will not only be trying to gather intelligence (which is what they will be doing during peace time) but also may be willing to engage Chinese units en route to and from whatever their objective is.

The PLAN will realize this and plan their missions and the resource needed for that mission accordingly.

I believe that the Type 056, both the standard variant and the ASW variant are perfectly suited for these types of missions and tasks as they are. Further, I believe the Chinese planned it this way from the get go. They need something more modern and more capable to replace the Type 037 and other sub chasers and patrol craft they have, and they needed something they could integrate in terms of communications and weapons systems.

They developed the Type 056 tp do this and I feel they did a good job of it.

...and they are clearly happy with what they have designed because they are building them as quickly as they can at four different yards and I expect that will continue for another several years, ultimately approaching 80- or so of these vessels.
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just 2 things.

1. Inside the first island chain, fixed-wing MPA support should work out better than helicopters (in terms of cost, response time, endurance, etc) to support Type-56s when they encounter a possible submarine contact.

2. There are going to be so many Chinese civilian vessels that it will simply not be feasible to delegate enough ships for convoy escort duty.

From a historical point of view, NATO faced the same problem during the cold war for its trans-atlantic shipping. So the concept of a defended sea lane with roving hunter-killer groups was developed. In Chinese terms, a task group of Type-54 and Type-56 would serve the same function.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Janiz

Type 056 ships aren't there to fight on the Pacific - they're made for coastal waters. If they would be used in a conflict - they would get into action against smaller craft from other navies where they could compensate slightly weaker offensive capabilities with numbers. China has got some geographical obstacles and the biggest of them is the vast area of shallow continental shelf in the East China Sea. There's nothing they could do against conventional subs in such environment and the logical choice for Chinese navy is to break through the South China Sea to the Pacific and start the fight there where it's geographical limitations will be erased. Type 056 ships will be doing their small tasks in the coastal waters during the war. They aren't frontliners.
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Yes, Type-56 aren't meant to be used outside the first island chain, but they will be very useful platforms for ASW for example.

And why does the Chinese Navy need to break through into the Pacific? The primary Chinese targets will be in the Western Pacific next to China anyway.
 
J

Janiz

Senior Member
AndrewS said:
And why does the Chinese Navy need to break through into the Pacific?
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Because of the subs lying on the continental shelf sea-bed waiting quietly for their prey. East China Sea is really similar to Baltic Sea in this aspect - rather shallow waters, perfect place for hiding against any kind of anti-submarine warfare. The level of danger for surface warships in those areas is so big that most of the Baltic countries that operate around this sea resigned from constructing big warships unless they have direct connection to the North Sea/Atlantic. This and the fact that you can destroy most of them from land.
 
FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
steve_rolfe said:
Well, here we go again.........another 056 commissioning, this time its 'ship or boat' :) No '509' Huaian
which i believe is the 27th 056 Corvette to join the active list.
Commissioned on the 11th August 2016.

View attachment 30093
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This new for Putuoshan.
The 27 by units, Fleets, Light Frigates Squadrons, normaly again 3 this year, the 2 next also as this one for ESF

CH 056.PNG CH 056.PNG

Total 52 Corvettes with 6 Houjian/037-II, 19 Houxin/037-IG small almost big Missile Boats.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Jeff Head said:
Further, I believe the Chinese planned it this way from the get go. They need something more modern and more capable to replace the Type 037 and other sub chasers and patrol craft they have, and they needed something they could integrate in terms of communications and weapons systems.
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PLAN also need ships that has enough creature comforts for the crew to do long cruises
 
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