joshuatree
Captain
Curious, why does the 056 omit decoy rocket launchers when even the 022's appear to have them?
056 class FFL/corvette
- Thread starter dingyibvs
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it's tucked away just to towards the back from the SSMs besides the funnel.
From jeff head's site. See the 3 row of tubes? It's easy to miss.
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
I was just thinking about this new, large opening at the back of some of the latest 056s, and I was wondering if those might not be a mine hunting variant.
The opening could be for a launch and recovery mechanism for a remote mine hunting submersible similar to the US AN/WLD-1
Could be, but the large opening could also be for a VDS.
We've seen similar sized holes on 054A hull 19 and all 052Ds, it would make some sense to give some 056s a more comprehensive ASW capability to complement their existing bow sonar and TAS.
More importantly I'd imagine the PLAN are still currently content using dedicated mine hunting ships rather than giving that job to a corvette, but who knows.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
A few nice shots comparing the 346 and 346A on 052C and D, a shot of D's aft (dat VDS door), and a nice shot of D's main gun.
That's what the suspected VDS doors on the 052Ds look like, and are similar to what's on the 054A.
The opening on the 056 is a completely different shape, and is considerable larger even though the 056's aft deck is almost exactly the same height and size as the 054A's.
If they were to add VDS to the 056, it makes no sense that they would use a completely different design to what is being used by the rest of the fleet, which makes me doubt very much that this is a VDS.
Its true that the PLAN has dedicated mine hunting ships, but those ships are old and few in number. The USN has a far better equipped dedicated mine hunting fleet, but they still see mine hunting as one of the cornerstone capabilities of their LCS'.
Given how closely the PLAN study the USN, it would certainly not be out of the question for them to have reached a similar conclusion as the USN about the advantages of having a stand-off mine clearance capability on their own LCS fleet.
Well my train of thought is that the 056 opening looks the same width as the 052D and 054A opening, and it extends down closer to the waterline possibly because of 056's smaller draft.
That is to say, yes, the opening is physically different, but that difference could be convincingly explained by the ship's smaller size, requiring some kind expanauon in height of the opening for use of the same VDS as the other ships mentioned.
Could have to do with deploying and retrieving the fish, and that extra height maybe increases ease/ reduces risk in some way that is related to the ship's smaller size, and 054A and 052D do not require the extension because they are larger ships.
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And the PLAN has quite a lot of new mine hunting ships actually, they've been churning them out at a decent rate in past years. I think SDF has a thread just for it.
That said an 056 mine hunter might be useful. I just think it might be a job better left for more dedicated ships.
However my belief that the 056's opening is for VDS is related to the first part of my post, and at the width of the opening in particular, which looks similar to 052D and 054As
That is to say, yes, the opening is physically different, but that difference could be convincingly explained by the ship's smaller size, requiring some kind expanauon in height of the opening for use of the same VDS as the other ships mentioned.
Could have to do with deploying and retrieving the fish, and that extra height maybe increases ease/ reduces risk in some way that is related to the ship's smaller size, and 054A and 052D do not require the extension because they are larger ships.
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And the PLAN has quite a lot of new mine hunting ships actually, they've been churning them out at a decent rate in past years. I think SDF has a thread just for it.
That said an 056 mine hunter might be useful. I just think it might be a job better left for more dedicated ships.
However my belief that the 056's opening is for VDS is related to the first part of my post, and at the width of the opening in particular, which looks similar to 052D and 054As
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I really don't follow how a smaller ship would require a bigger launch and recovery mechanism for the same VDS as larger ships.
With smaller ships, where space is at a greater premium, you would want the most compact variants you can get for them, whereas it is typically the larger ships, with more space available, that tend to have the bigger and more elaborate versions of equipment, which usually also has greater range/functionality as well.
As for dedicated mine hunters vs LCS, well the dedicated mine hunters can no doubt do a more comprehensive job, and there would be need for them later, but would they have the same reaction speed and survivability as an 056?
I can see the PLAN using 056 minesweepers as a first wave force that clears a path through enemy minefields fast, and potentially where the battlespace has not been entirely cleared of enemy surface and air assets.
The 056 would be better suited to holding their own against any enemy fast attack craft that slips through and should be able to fend off small scale, opportunist air attacks as well. Something dedicated minesweepers are unlikely to be able to do.
In addition, a minesweeping 056 would present as a far less obvious target to the enemy, especially if they are operating alongside other regular 056s, so it would far harder for an enemy to specifically target them to presurve their minefields for as long as possible as they could potentially do against dedicate minesweepers.
If the PLAN as anything similar to the AN/WLD-1, the 056 could deploy it within minutes, and then steam off to perform other duties while the USV goes off and maps the minefield independently.
In this way, the PLAN can get detailed maps of the enemy mine field without alerting the enemy that they are mapping the minefields, while performing other duties, such as hunting down enemy FACs, at the same time.
With that knowledge, the PLAN can choose where and when it wants to clear a path through the enemy minefield and deploy its dedicated minesweepers then, and potentially clear a path far quicker than the enemy would expect and achieve tactical surprise and advantage.
The same USV could also be used for ASW, so instead of hunting for mines, they would form a patrol parameter to guard against enemy subs trying to sneak past to attack valuable targets.
I think USVs will take off in a big way similar to how UAVs are reshaping air forces, so giving the 056s a means to deploy and recover USVs would be a very good investment and a cost effective means of futureproofing the class.
In a similar vain, I think that the PLAN will find its LPDs and future LHDs to be useful as mobile motherships for a whole host of USVs that it could then deploy long distances with a task group. So don't be surprised if LPDs and LHDs become a standard component of future PLAN carrier and other expeditionary task groups.
With smaller ships, where space is at a greater premium, you would want the most compact variants you can get for them, whereas it is typically the larger ships, with more space available, that tend to have the bigger and more elaborate versions of equipment, which usually also has greater range/functionality as well.
As for dedicated mine hunters vs LCS, well the dedicated mine hunters can no doubt do a more comprehensive job, and there would be need for them later, but would they have the same reaction speed and survivability as an 056?
I can see the PLAN using 056 minesweepers as a first wave force that clears a path through enemy minefields fast, and potentially where the battlespace has not been entirely cleared of enemy surface and air assets.
The 056 would be better suited to holding their own against any enemy fast attack craft that slips through and should be able to fend off small scale, opportunist air attacks as well. Something dedicated minesweepers are unlikely to be able to do.
In addition, a minesweeping 056 would present as a far less obvious target to the enemy, especially if they are operating alongside other regular 056s, so it would far harder for an enemy to specifically target them to presurve their minefields for as long as possible as they could potentially do against dedicate minesweepers.
If the PLAN as anything similar to the AN/WLD-1, the 056 could deploy it within minutes, and then steam off to perform other duties while the USV goes off and maps the minefield independently.
In this way, the PLAN can get detailed maps of the enemy mine field without alerting the enemy that they are mapping the minefields, while performing other duties, such as hunting down enemy FACs, at the same time.
With that knowledge, the PLAN can choose where and when it wants to clear a path through the enemy minefield and deploy its dedicated minesweepers then, and potentially clear a path far quicker than the enemy would expect and achieve tactical surprise and advantage.
The same USV could also be used for ASW, so instead of hunting for mines, they would form a patrol parameter to guard against enemy subs trying to sneak past to attack valuable targets.
I think USVs will take off in a big way similar to how UAVs are reshaping air forces, so giving the 056s a means to deploy and recover USVs would be a very good investment and a cost effective means of futureproofing the class.
In a similar vain, I think that the PLAN will find its LPDs and future LHDs to be useful as mobile motherships for a whole host of USVs that it could then deploy long distances with a task group. So don't be surprised if LPDs and LHDs become a standard component of future PLAN carrier and other expeditionary task groups.
The beam of the 056 is less than that of the 054A so it appears that the rear opening is relatively larger on the 056 for the same size opening on the 054A.
I think this thing must be a VDS, as there has been extensive talk of an ASW variant of the 056, and finally we now see a new variant with a suspiciously familiar stern opening.
I think this thing must be a VDS, as there has been extensive talk of an ASW variant of the 056, and finally we now see a new variant with a suspiciously familiar stern opening.
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