056 class FFL/corvette

no_name said:

Will 40 type 056s sounds way too much?

Since we have 80 type 022s, And I'm just using an arbitrary half and half rule.
Maybe 20 type 054As?

And maybe at least 10 type 052Cs?

Click to expand...

Hard to say.

We'll just have to wait and see.

I believe there will be over a hundred Type 022s. There are already 14 Type 054As and pieces for 15 and 16. Whether they will stop there or not is not clear.

They now have 6 Type 052Cs, four built and two building. I do not know if they plan more of them.

As to the Type 056 OPVs, I could easily see 24 of those...but if they go for one to one replacement for the older small patrol baots, they they would far exceed the number you mention. 40 sounds very achievable if they decide to do so.

We know a third Type 071 LPD is finishing...I expect at least a forurth to be built there to.

And the VAryag is on trials and now we will wait on indications that two more are building as the PRC has indicated.

All of them are very nice and very capable, modern vessels, and the PLAN has modernized astoundingly fast in the last 10 years.

Jeff Head said:

Nice pics.
I added to my comparison chart from above, throwing in the Type 022 FAC so you can compare the FAC, OPV, and FFG at once:

Click to expand...

The FL-3000N installed on the ex-Varyag turned out to be 18-round model. It'd be interesting to see if they install the 18 or 24 round version on the 056. I'm curious as to why you listed the sonar as "towed array"? I think the norm is hull mounted sonar on vessels like this.

no_name said:

Will 40 type 056s sounds way too much?
Since we have 80 type 022s, And I'm just using an arbitrary half and half rule.
Maybe 20 type 054As?
And maybe at least 10 type 052Cs?

Click to expand...

There are speculations that only 3-4 ships of this class are ordered as replacements for the HK garrison, but there is no proof so we'll have to see. As for the Chinese Navy mass producing the 056, I think it'd depend on the cost ratio vs. the 054A class. i.e. if the 054A cost $300 million and the 056 cost $60 million, then the 056 is a great deal.

^ No reason it can't have both hull and TAS like 054A -- there's certainly the space and would be a logical, low cost addition to ASW assets.

If they wanted a serious ASW asset they'd delete the AShMs and make room for a hangar - and be prepared to ramp up Z-9 production so they have enough whirlybirds for them.

A flotilla of 8 gives 4 or so on patrol at any given time (taking into account the shorter distance they need to travel) and each pair would be a potent addition to China's threadbare ASW forces.

Jeff Head said:

Nice pics.

I added to my comparison chart from above, throwing in the Type 022 FAC so you can compare the FAC, OPV, and FFG at once:

Click to expand...

Are the bilges of 056A and 056 really as sharp as depicted here?

delft said:

Are the bilges of 56A and 56 really as sharp as depicted here?

Click to expand...

So far, the only reference of the 056 is that model appeared earlier this year, how much of that is to scale is still remain a wild guess. We'd only know when there's a physical ship appear.

Lacrimosa said:

If they wanted a serious ASW asset they'd delete the AShMs and make room for a hangar - and be prepared to ramp up Z-9 production so they have enough whirlybirds for them.

Click to expand...

There's enough space on the ship to accomodate a hanger and the AShM's, but that wasn't in the design. I'd speculate that the ship is intended to operate within China's EEZ where aviation assets are land-based, but can land on the ship's helicopter deck if needed.

The Israeli Saar 4.5 boats are under 500 ton displacement, but has helicopter hanger installed on the first 2 ships.

For ASW duty, I think the issue with 056 is that even if you install a hanger on it, the Z-9 is still somewhat lightweight for ASW role. It doesn't have the capability and endurance of SH-60 or NH90/NFH, and I'm uncertain if the 056 could accomodate a heavyweight ASW helicopter. The Z-9/AS365's empty weight is about 2,000 kg, versus the SH-60/NH90/Ka-27 is at 6,500-7,000 kg.

Well actually, if Jeff's diagrams are accurate, the 056 has a disproportionately large helipad compared to the 054A in terms of length at least, and this is likely only possible because they chose not to incorporate a hanger in the design. The rationale for doing so could be for the exact reason as you stated - that the Z9 is not the best choice for an ASW helo.

Thus, why add in a hanger to house a Z9 sized helo, which isn't good enough, when you could instead make the helipad big enough for something like the Z15 to land on when that becomes operational?

These 056s are mean to remain in service for 20-30 years or more, so why limit their design to the helos that are available today?

If the 056 is to act as an ASW ship, it would be operating as part of a task force, so you can have something like a carrier or LHD, or even DDGs act as the home ship for medium sized ASW helos like the Z15, but use the 056s as a mobile screen to vastly extend the range of these helos and keep your heavy hitters further away from hostile subs.

However, having said all that, I am yet to be fully convinced that the 056 is designed as a ASW ship. It is a little on the small size for such a role, as a fleet would need ASW screens on deployment, and I am just not sure an 056 has the range to go on the kind of tours a carrier battle group would be expected to undertake.

It's small size would also make it harder to install a decent sized sonar suit.

I personally think the 056 is just a light weight patrol corvette to help patrol China's waters better to free up the likes of the 054A and 052s and 051Cs to got on extended patrol with the PLAN's future carriers without having to cut back on patrols in home waters.

The lightweight Corvette w/helicopter design worked for the Israelis, because their patrol area is mostly near-shore, and they deployed MD500 Defenders that were much lighter (600 kg empty weight) in combat missions against land targets in Lebanon. The MD500 Defender was light enough that they could carry 2 per ship (1 in hanger + 1 on deck) for the strike mission, and the targets were all reasonably near-shore for the MD500's limited operational range. The Israrelis have since sold the ships to Mexico, who also operates MD 500's with the Mexican Naval Aviation.

For the Chinese Navy, the conditions and requirements are different. If the intention was to build an ASW corvette that can operate heavy ASW helicopter, we could look at the 2,000 ton Gepard class frigate as an example. But it may not be cost effective vs. building 054A's.

I though one of the most celebrated anti submarine in WW II is small special purpose submarine chaser. Use effectively to escort convoy and dart in and out of the convoy chasing German submarine.
in the Atlantic war

In modern time Singapore Fearless class submarine chaser is use to patrol harbor and ward off any submarine intruder Which is exactly what China need in Hainan and other harbor, naval base along the long east coast.


Singapore Technologies Marine Ltd (ST Marine), part of Singapore Technologies Engineering, built 12 Fearless Class patrol vessels for the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN). The RSN awarded the contract to ST Marine in February 1993 and the first of the Fearless Class patrol craft was commissioned in October 1996. The final vessel of the class was commissioned in August 1998.


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"The Forgotten Fleet"

This book is about the PC Patrol Craft that fought in World War II. Almost 50,000 men served on 361 of them. Even so, PCs received little acclaim. One naval historian called them "The Forgotten Fleet."

So that the world will not forget them, a former PC sailor wrote this book. He tells the story of PCs in World War II.

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The author draws from his and his shipmates' experiences and memories. He uses old photographs and drawings. From them, he describes what life was like for sixty-five men crowded aboard these small ships. He portrays the fearful times when tossed and torn by raging seas. He recounts the terrifying battles against submarines and kamikazes and when leading landing craft to the invasion beaches.