054B/new generation frigate

This image may have been posted elsewhere, but I am posting it here because I think it is a nice angle that shows us an accurate comparison of the area taken of the VLS on 052D compared to the VLS on 054A (as well as a comparison of both ships overall).

I find this relevant for 054B, because two of the biggest unknowns and speculative projections for 054B is if it would be derived from the 054A hull, and if it would have 32 bow UVLS (as on 052D).

Of course, this only compares the topside bow deck surface area taken for the 32 bow UVLS on 052D and the 32 bow H/AJK-16 VLS on 054A -- it doesn't allow us to compare for VLS depth and how much volume the bow UVLS on 052D would take on the 054A's bow deck.
We would have to assume a prospective 32 bow UVLS on 054B would all be the 7m variant (052D has half of its 32 bow UVLS said to be the 9m variant, and half as 7m variant). We also don't know if perhaps the 054B's bow deck would be at a "higher" level than that of 054A, which would result in a more elevated and enclosed bow, which among other things, could provide additional vertical "height" to the UVLS in the bow than might be available otherwise.

Bltizo said:

(052D has half of its 32 bow UVLS said to be the 9m variant, and half as 7m variant).

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Does that mean 052d carries minimum of 16 HQ-16s? Since HQ-9 can't fit in 7m variant right?

Anyway, I still think 32 bow UVLS on 054B is a bit of a hard fit. It would basically mean just a smaller midsection compared to 052D.

Maybe they'll go with something like 24 bow UVLS (maybe 8 of which are 9m) and 8 midsection UVLS (9m for firing ashm) for a total of 32

sndef888 said:

Does that mean 052d carries minimum of 16 HQ-16s? Since HQ-9 can't fit in 7m variant right?

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No.

The HQ-9 fits in the 7m UVLS.

We have no evidence the HQ-16 has been integrated with the UVLS, and given the existence of HQ-9 and the forthcoming quad pack 3-5 missile, there is no rationale for integrating HQ-16 onto the UVLS at this time.

sndef888 said:

Anyway, I still think 32 bow UVLS on 054B is a bit of a hard fit. It would basically mean just a smaller midsection compared to 052D.

Maybe they'll go with something like 24 bow UVLS (maybe 8 of which are 9m) and 8 midsection UVLS (9m for firing ashm) for a total of 32

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Being based off the 054A hull doesn't mean it has to be the same literal hull.

An extension of the overall hull by 7-10 meters, and rearranging the various topside structures, along with a higher, enclosed bow, could make it viable.

I see no reason why the bow UVLS needs to be 9m.

32 bow UVLS of the 7m length can carry HQ-9 and everything shorter than it.

Bltizo said:

No.

The HQ-9 fits in the 7m UVLS.

We have no evidence the HQ-16 has been integrated with the UVLS, and given the existence of HQ-9 and the forthcoming quad pack 3-5 missile, there is no rationale for integrating HQ-16 onto the UVLS at this time.



Being based off the 054A hull doesn't mean it has to be the same literal hull.

An extension of the overall hull by 7-10 meters, and rearranging the various topside structures, along with a higher, enclosed bow, could make it viable.

I see no reason why the bow UVLS needs to be 9m.

32 bow UVLS of the 7m length can carry HQ-9 and everything shorter than it.

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Oops seems like I remembered wrongly, what I meant would be something like 24x 7m bow uvls and 8x 9m midship uvls. Such a layout would probably be easier to engineer as they'd have to make less changes to the bow area

sndef888 said:

Oops seems like I remembered wrongly, what I meant would be something like 24x 7m bow uvls and 8x 9m midship uvls. Such a layout would probably be easier to engineer as they'd have to make less changes to the bow area

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That really depends on how they orient it.
The only way that could work is if they retained two longitudinal eight cell modules, and then had one transverse eight module immediately in front of it.


But even if we assume 054B to be based off 054A, it doesn't mean it needs to be the same literal hull.
A full displacement over 5000t gives them a lot of additional hull to work with, including for expansion of overall dimensions.


Unfortunately my art is perhaps half a grade or so (heh) below that of people like 大包, 西葛西 or 高山, but some modifications to the base 054A hull like below (lengthening the ship by adding mid section plugins to effectively lengthen the helipad and bow, as well as raising the bow deck height to be enclosed and flat like on 055, thus raising the height of the bow overall), would be the sort of major base hull structural changes I could foresee.

Most of the lines below I think are fairly obvious.
Blue being structural changes, major weapons emplacements, deck house and mast changes etc.

The green being an area either for slant launch AShMs, or it would be for an 8 cell 9m UVLS bank (of course the green area would be a bit big for that, it's only indicative).

My depicted piece of genius art, is just over 142m long, compared to that 134m of the standard 054A and still well below the 157m of 052D and the 161m 052DL.

I think 32 front section that's 7 m + 8 mid section (7 or 9 is fine) would make the most sense here. I wonder if they can come up with something between 3 and 7, like 5 m, that would work for quad pack and ASuW.

tphuang said:

I think 32 front section that's 7 m + 8 mid section (7 or 9 is fine) would make the most sense here. I wonder if they can come up with something between 3 and 7, like 5 m, that would work for quad pack and ASuW.

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Yeahhh, perhaps GJB 5860-2006 Mod 1 or GJB 5860-2022 (which basically 2006 + 5m length + few other improvements), the standard is over 15 yrs old anyway

I have been wondering that actually the jump from 3.3 to 7 is quite big ... having 5m is very ideal

And I have been wondering what 3.3 is even supposed to be for if it won't even fit the notional quad packs... No missile ever associated with the UVLS would fit that AFAIK...

Preux said:

And I have been wondering what 3.3 is even supposed to be for if it won't even fit the notional quad packs... No missile ever associated with the UVLS would fit that AFAIK...

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Quite possible for a navalized HQ-17, let's refer to it as the HHQ-17. Not inconceivable since this would be the Chinese counterpart to the widely deployed Klinoks, which is the naval version of the Tor M1, which in turn is the source inspiration for the HQ-17. Such a missile will only have a length of 3m. I assume this project got canceled to make way for the HHQ-10.

Since the specification dates back to 2006, and this 2006 leak is coup of intel with a huge bit of luck that may not be repeatable, it won't be unforeseeable that during the interim, new lengths of the U-VLS would be proposed to suit smaller and intermediate sized ships.

tphuang said:

I think 32 front section that's 7 m + 8 mid section (7 or 9 is fine) would make the most sense here. I wonder if they can come up with something between 3 and 7, like 5 m, that would work for quad pack and ASuW.

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If they go with an amidships UVLS bank instead of slant launched AShMs, I think it would have to be the 9m variant to allow them to launch AShMs (unless they develop a new, shorter AShM).