054B/new generation frigate

tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
Why are people complaining about the choice of AShM on the 54B again? In the cluttered littorals, at short range, under space constraints, the YJ-83 is likely the most reliable choice. It has a imaging infrared seeker and is reliable at navigating cluttered battlespaces. I would not trust a "small hypersonic missile" to be able to perform the same roles at all. If opposing warships can hide in the shadows of islands and civilian maritime traffic, then a subsonic missile is the best option.
Ukraine war and recent Iran-Israel clash and all the houthi-US fight has shown that subsonic missiles are very easy to shoot down.

They can only act as a decoy to waste interceptor missiles. Air/Missile defense technology is now advanced enough that only high supersonic and hypersonic missiles have any realistic chance of penetrating the dense air defense of a navy ship; let alone a proper naval battle group consisting of several destroyers and cruisers.

Most frigate designs around the world typically can only carry around 4-8 anti-ship missiles. I would argue that it makes much more sense to make those 8 missiles useful in terms AD penetration capability.
 

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
Four more 054B (i.e. total of six) has been discussed for some time, but this is the first mention of another four after that (i.e. total of ten). Perhaps 054B will enter mass production after all, instead of just serving as a transition class.

Some folks will probably be disappointed, but I have said many times before that PLAN taking a conservative approach should be no surprise by now.
There is nothing to indicate there is another 4 054Bs. It was simply just people expecting both shipyards to build frigates with equal orders.

So this isn't really news, it just more evidence confirms what we already know. Current outstanding orders for 054B still is 6.
 
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lcloo

Major
Very disappointing if PLA is still ordering 054B, the worst PLA ship design in recent memory. I was hoping they would move toward a bigger frigate or a frigate with much better air defense armament and hypersonic missiles for strike capability.
First how is type 054B the worst ship design? It is very different from type 054A in hull form and displacement. We don't even have true information of this ships except those info generated by fanboys and China watchers. As I recalled, PLAN has never leaked out any information to public.

The first hull is practically a verification design, as in type 054 before the iteration to type 054A. There is why only 2 were built initially, which remind us of type 051C, tyoe 052B and type 052C, and until they are satisfied would they build them in large numbers. On the other hand if these type 054B do not meet PLAN's expectation, as in type 052B, they will just switch to some other ship design.

If it is the weapon and sensor configuration that disappoints you, then that is relatively minor, as can be seen from changes from type 054 to type 054A. If it is the propulsion that disappoint you, just check the performance of type 054A in past and current deployment of fleet actions in Somali and fleet exercises in South China Sea and East China Sea, Japan Sea and East of Taiwan.

Look at the super duper design of US navy LCS and Zumwalt, how are they doing today?
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Type-054B is supposed to have a very good radar that is significantly superior to 054A. So, my guess is that it should be able to support a much superior Air Defense missile. Something akin to HQ-9C which is significantly smaller and thinner than HQ-9B. This will be a good capability upgrade for Type 054B or its successor.

Yes. The radar on the Type-054B should be a lot better than the Type-054A.
But there is a reason the radars on Destroyers are so much larger.

So even if you give the Type-054B a HQ-9C equivalent SAM, I think the Frigate-sized radar would struggle to use such a missile.


Another important armament to upgrade will be the slant launcher for YJ-83. Replacing YJ-83 with a small but capable hypersonic missile will be significant upgrade. Yj-19 should be small enough to be able to be carried by the frigate.

This is still a much lower level capability than UVLS capable destroyers of the PLA. Which can carry bigger sized missiles such as YJ-17 and YJ-20 along with much bigger Air/Missile defense missiles. PLA is integrating HQ-19 for naval missile defense into its destroyers for example.

PLA frigates should be the more numerous second line defender for PLA carrier strike groups and amphib strike groups. They can also act as convoy escorts.

With these armament upgrades, PLA frigates should much more capable without falling into destroyer level capability.

Look at the production rate of Frigates (~4 per year) versus Destroyers (~4 per year). So there are going to be a lot of Destroyers available to supplement Frigates.

And if the Chinese Navy needs more high-end air defence or hypersonic ASBMs, I think they should adjust the production ratio between Frigates and Destroyers. Not try to turn Frigates into mini-Destroyers like with the Constellation-class debacle.

I also think that for Chinese CSGs, an ASW Destroyer is better option than an ASW Frigate in the future. But remember that this is still a niche capability (1-2? ships per CSG)
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
054B as a 6-10 hull production run for a frigate is pretty reasonable.

The weapons suite on paper is basically the same as a 054A, however its sensors, command, signature reduction, and onboard facilities and endurance should be far superior to 054A. As a hullform, it is clearly far more contemporary and modern than 054A.

As an intermediary frigate design between 054A and whatever comes after, 054B is perfectly viable, and a total production of 6-10 hulls would be able to learn some lessons, continue to bolster their FFG fleet, while awaiting a more refined design to emerge later.


A more refined design naturally would seek to adopt a more modern propulsion system, but it could very well keep most of the rest of the ship including the overall hull and placement of other major subsystems. Whether it would make sense to upgrade the weapons or not (such as to UVLS) would depend far more on the pros and cons of continuing the H/AJK-16 VLS family into the long term.

Viewing 054B as the frigate equivalent of 052C may be useful -- a greatly improved and more capable successor to its predecessor (though for 054B the advancements relative to 054A are in hullform/size, sensors, onboard facilities, rather than sensors and weapons like 052C/052B) -- serving itself as a relatively moderate production run intermediary to a more mass producible and mature class in the near future.... 052D of course being the follow-on from 052C. Whether we will see a "054C" or a "057" in terms of designation that succeeds 054B, who knows? But I personally expect it to be the modern frigate equivalent of 052D.
 

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
A more refined design naturally would seek to adopt a more modern propulsion system, but it could very well keep most of the rest of the ship including the overall hull and placement of other major subsystems. Whether it would make sense to upgrade the weapons or not (such as to UVLS) would depend far more on the pros and cons of continuing the H/AJK-16 VLS family into the long term.
We can guesstimate it from the needs.

What drives new sensors? Need for better S/A, wastly increased requirement in terms of average rcs.

Does HHQ-16 cover ranges at which reasonable target can be detected and tracked? For aerodynamic target, yes. For ballistic target, 1-2 maybe, but given expected proliferation of PrSM and SM-6 - potentially not so much; the question of course is how much PLAN expects frigates to even fight those.
Can H/AJK take new slimmer ABM missiles?

The more important question for evolution, it appears, is low end threats. And this is requirement for new set of short range defenses, where we don't yet have a definite answer on what's best. PLAAF and PLAGF can try doing it all, land is cheap. On a ship, builder will have to chose between various DEWs, guns, missiles and soft kill solutions.
Existing PD guns(CIWS) aren't well optimized for the task...
 
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