Not to mention that Pakistan is already a customer and user of land based HQ-16/LY-60 missiles. So they have experience using and maintaining that stuff.
054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Not to mention that Pakistan is already a customer and user of land based HQ-16/LY-60 missiles. So they have experience using and maintaining that stuff.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Still, I could not help but think Pakistan missed a golden opportunity to jump onto the next big thing rather than settling for off the shelf.
If they wanted to get the new UVLS, it is possible they could have worked out some sort of deal where the PLAN paid for the redesign either in part or in full, as it would have then provided an off-the-shelf option for the PLAN’s own 054A MLU upgrade.
The UVLS can take HQ16s and ASROCs that the legacy 054A VLS could take, so it’s not like switching to the UVLS would mean scrapping a shed load of munitions.
Having the UVLS would vastly add to the utility of the PN 054As, as it means all future PLAN toys would automatically be compatible. The most useful would be a multi-pack medium range SAM, especially when we consider both the limited VLS cell numbers per ship, and the relatively small number of ships the PN would have.
UVLS would have also unlocked a whole range of LACM and AShM options for the PN.
This is very much like the JF17 deal, whereby Pakistan wanted something bespoke, but that comes at the cost of future upgrade potential, because all future weapons and systems upgrades will also need to be bespoke, whereas had they just gone with what the PLA was developing, it would have a far bigger selection of new generation weapons and systems available off-the-shelf.
If they wanted to get the new UVLS, it is possible they could have worked out some sort of deal where the PLAN paid for the redesign either in part or in full, as it would have then provided an off-the-shelf option for the PLAN’s own 054A MLU upgrade.
The UVLS can take HQ16s and ASROCs that the legacy 054A VLS could take, so it’s not like switching to the UVLS would mean scrapping a shed load of munitions.
Having the UVLS would vastly add to the utility of the PN 054As, as it means all future PLAN toys would automatically be compatible. The most useful would be a multi-pack medium range SAM, especially when we consider both the limited VLS cell numbers per ship, and the relatively small number of ships the PN would have.
UVLS would have also unlocked a whole range of LACM and AShM options for the PN.
This is very much like the JF17 deal, whereby Pakistan wanted something bespoke, but that comes at the cost of future upgrade potential, because all future weapons and systems upgrades will also need to be bespoke, whereas had they just gone with what the PLA was developing, it would have a far bigger selection of new generation weapons and systems available off-the-shelf.
Being the first customer of something highly complex and advanced (frigate is a good example) has its own unimaginable adventures.
054A ain't that old, it's perfectly adequate and, above all, it will 100% work.
Pakistan Navy wanted a FREMM or at least La Fayette type fittings and armaments as well as local production with 054A order. They had a wish of making it like JF17s. But China had told them to stay with default fittings and chinese shipyard construction to get it quickly and cheaply as all sunk cost have been recovered with it long running productions with established procedures. So Pakistan went for cheaper offer to get them quickly with minimal customization as possible. I would hope Pakistan Navy order another batch 4 of these to meet its base frigate requirements + 3-4 052D destroyers for fleet air defense.
there were no reports of Pakistan Navy interest in manufacturing of bigger Ships like Type-54AP, in fact it was well understood years before the actual negotiations that PN would go for of OTS purchase in the form of F-22P batch-II from China for the replacements old frigates of PN ....
And as initial media reports at least 1st type-54AP would be configured same as PLAN Type-54 ships
Fittings on the 054AP are not default. Many of the default fittings on the 054A are not allowed for export, specifically the Type 382 search radar and the EW fittings. So the search radars are changed, but took a step towards a more advanced search radar, while the EW suite appears customized, at least externally according to the model, its not like the 054A's. In addition a VHF radar is added, but this model is one that is already on the F22P. The 054A in PLAN guise does not have any VHF radar. Its possible the PN also ordered the CM302 for antiship missiles but I have not heard confirmation. That's the export version of the YJ-12 supersonic missile instead of the CM802 which is the export YJ-83.
So the 054A/P isn't a standard 054A, and the search radar in particular is an AESA, the SR2410C is more in the category of the SMART-S Mk II or the Type 997 Artisan 3D, SAAB Sea Giraffe II or the Airbus TRS-4D.
Both SM-2 and the Buk missile are almost exactly 700kg, the SM-2 around 707kg and the Buk around 690 to 715kg. Given the HQ-16 is a copy of the latter, its safe to assume the same weight range. The SM-2 is around .34m in diameter while the Buk or HQ-16 is around .4m in diameter.
It stands that the H/AJK-16 VLS might have similar cell dimensions with the Mk. 41 except on length. To hold quadpack smaller SAMs, all you need is enough X and Y dimensions of the cell, and not the Z (depth) of the cell. For the H/AJK-16, it has to be over 5.5 meters in depth in order to accomodate the HQ-16. It would be comparable with the air defense versions of the Mk. 41 which are limited up to 5.3 meters in depth, but not the Strike and Tactical versions at 6.8 meters (Tactical) and 7.7 meters for the Strike, which are meant for Tomahawks and the SM-3. It stands possible that the H/AJK-16 as it is, may hold quad pack SAMs, with cruise missiles being out of the table.
Given that the DK-10 appears to be rejected by the PLAN in favor for the mystery 5-5-5 missile, DK-10 could be approved for export. Its land based version, Skydragon 50 or SD-50, already has been exported like say, Morocco. I don't have the length of the SD-50 but it should fall well within the length of the HQ-16. Potentially, four DK-10/SD-50 can be quadpacked into the H/AJK-16 cell. DK-10 will not perform as well as 5-5-5, with its maximum G stated at 38G, while 5-5-5 is up to 50G, the DK-10's speed may only be Mach 3-4, while the 5-5-5 reaches Mach 5. That is what you get with a smaller and older missile design. Nonetheless, the DK-10 performs similarly to the SD-10 used by FC-17 because the DK-10/SD-50 is a sea/land based version of the SD-10 which is the export PL-12. As such, it will also carry an active guided seeker.
There is no certainty or proof that the PN has ordered the DK-10/SD-50 but I believe that should be a viable ESSM like option for the 054A/P's VLS.
Last edited:
timepass
Brigadier
PN recently done an extensive shopping keeping in view the budget constraints ,,,,
NEW:
8 SSKs (Qiung Class)
4 FFGs (054A/P)
4 FFGs/Corvettes (Milgem Class)
2 + 2 OPVs (Damen Class)
3 + 3 MPAs ( RAS-72 Sea Eagle)
2 Cutters for PMSA (054 Class)
4 Cutters for PMSA (056 Class)
6 MPVs for PMSA (600 Tons Maritime Patrol Vessels)
1 + 1 Fleet replenishment Tanker
Upgrade:
SSKs (Agosta 90Bs) under process
F22Ps - Yet to start
With above mentioned list the chances for NEW acquisitions are less but there are talks/rumors in PN circles for leasing some DDGs in coming years, IMO they are eyeing on PLAN assets when they will be available.
there were no reports of Pakistan Navy interest in manufacturing of bigger Ships like Type-54AP, in fact it was well understood years before the actual negotiations that PN would go for of OTS purchase in the form of F-22P batch-II from China for the replacements old frigates of PN ....
PN first thought F-22P for that role for joint development. But it did not proceed further due to limited capability of the platform. Then they turn to Type-054P but they were told cost would too much for local production and customization. Now Turkish Milgem-J took that role of joint development and local production. That is the reason it took so long for them to order Type-054A ships. Also Pakistan procurement strategy has changed at bit due to joint strategy and commonality of fleets with China as much as possible so there will be more off the shelf purchase to prop up numbers and base requirements. Local production and customization as well as specialized equipments from non Chinese sources like Turkey.
