054/A FFG Thread II

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Well if some stuff is left out in western internetpages it doesen't mean it's not there...Let's not ridicule ourselves..

Here is a picture of Tawlar's bridge. The radar inside the red circle is Garpun
[qimg]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Novgorodsfleet/Tawlar1.png[/qimg]

And here is a picture of Tawlar's hangar. Atop inside the red circle is the Positive-E radar.
[qimg]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/Novgorodsfleet/Tawlar2.png[/qimg]

Could or may not. The thing is, if this is an X-band AA director, this is certainly a horrible place to put it because at least a quarter of the view towards the front is obscured.

Domes are domes. You cannot judge what the radar is underneath just by its shape.

The 054A supports two radars on top of two high masts. The structural weight for the masts are considerably much higher than one without or having a short mast. In addition to that, the front mast support the Fregat like radar on the 054A supports at least six other peripherals.

The 054A has a dome on the rear too, and its as big as any radar. But this is a satellite communication dome. Lets put it this way, it appears the 054A has more equipment on board than the Talwar.


Yeas it's a single huge complex which holds aside it's own deathweight, 24 Shtill missiles. It has 8 missiles less than in the 054As VLS but still the weight of the whole system is over 90tons (according to Norman Friedmans book of armaments;)). The stuff used to divert the rocket fumes out in Hot launched VLS systems is still not as extensive as the hydraulic and mechanical gear which operates the tradditional SAM launchers. Hence the bigger weight.

No. Seriously I got heavy doubts on Friedman's estimations. Hydraulic and mechanical gear don't weigh as much, and besides, its far more likely to be electric, like those used in cranes and heavy equipment. Plus there is only one of them.

Blast hardening would certainly add to the weight and space of the VLS. The rail launcher isn't blast hardened. In addition to the main tube being blast hardened, so will all the ducts and channels around the tubes.

The VLS is not free of mechanical and hydraulic equipment either. Something has to open the hatch covers.

Every tube has sensors and wiring. All of them require plumbing with associative blast hardening.

A VLS version of the same missile weighs more than its rail launched version because it has to have a short blast stage underneath with directional controls to tilt the missile over.

In addition, the VLS version of the missile has to be encased with its own cartridge. All that takes up more weight and space. The rail launched version does not.

And finally, a VLS is designed around the largest missile it is projected to carry, even though that missile is not what it is carrying right now.




Well surveing is part of my studies and my brother is a Survey engineer so I can assure you that GE is not accurate enough tool to determine distances from A to B other than in broad scale. In survey work it's completely insufficient. My brother actually laughted at me when I suggested GE to be used as a survey tool. The variations of the systems are such too huge. It's a good software and very usefull just like GPS based car navigators...but in proffesional survey work you need little bit heavier tools.

I did give it a go however and meassured some lenghts of warships that I could found. I first went to Severomorsk and meassured the lenght of Slava clas RKR. I got 189.5 meters and 190 meters results (did it twice as the image was too blurry so it was hard to focus the ruler). The real lenght of Slava is 186 meters. Aside it was Petr Velikiy and as for it I got 253.2 meters. Real lenght is 252 meters so it was quite close. But then I went to Severodvinsk where the two sisters of Petr Velikiy are. For both I got 249 meters.

So yeas you can have mistakes with GE...But my point isen't that. 054A may well be 130-133 meter long. It still however doesen't justificate over 5 000 ton displacement.

Yeah, but GE won't make the mistake of comparing a 124 ,meter ship vs. 133 meter ship. That's way too big a difference versus the scale of the length.

As a matter of fact, Jane's listed the 054A at 132 meters too. Add to that, it also lists the draught of the 054A to be higher than the Talwar's.

If you want to head back to the more armament means more displacement logic, the 054A also has six torpedo tubes, the Talwar only has four. It has two RBUs, the Talwar only has one. Plus the 054A has two decoy launchers to boot. If you figure out what the incoming Indian ship that has six torpedo tubes and two RBUs, guess what its weight is supposed to be.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
This here, is my all time favourite photo of a 054A...what a beautiful ship :china:

[qimg]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/flyzies/military/054A-529.jpg[/qimg]
I really like that pic too. It's a perfect pic of the 054A showing all of the equipment on decks.

The only thing that would make it better would be a helo coming in to land on the rear deck, or already sitting there.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
according to past issue of kanwa,all exisiting 054 are enlisted in eastern and southern fleet,but not the northen fleet, , according to the report the northern fleet commander dissatified with her air defense missile,the SAM-HQ-16 is only 20km range.other was her electronic fitting.
second, the top plate radar may be temporary,pending the introduction of Chinese make radar,speculation AESA may be?
report of enlarge 054 in drawing board.
 
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tphuang

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according to past issue of kanwa,all exisiting 054 are enlisted in eastern and southern fleet,but not the northen fleet, , according to the report the northern fleet commander dissatified with her air defense missile,the SAM-HQ-16 is only 20km range.other was her electronic fitting.
second, the top plate radar may be temporary,pending the introduction of Chinese make radar,speculation AESA may be?
report of enlarge 054 in drawing board.

I read that article, it's really junk. Kanwa had long lost all credibility over 054A when it couldn't even tell how many FCRs were on 054A after its pictures came out.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
That sounds nonsense. The HQ-16 should have an effective range from 25 to 56km (30nm).

The Northern Fleet is the runt of the three fleets, the best being the East and South Seas Fleets. Being the runt it gets all the crappy ships. It only has the 051C as the serious AD ship there. Which is to say the S-300 certainly has quite a long range, but its size and mass makes it better for picking off aircraft and larger cruise missiles, and a bit more questionable against smaller, more agile missiles. Despite its range, the 051C is the weakest of the AD ships in the PLAN fleet, because its radar configuration does not permit it to engage in all directions of the ship simultaneously.
 
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crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
The latest report now puts the new ship being built in Huangpu as the Yuncheng, pennant 569. It will go to the South Seas Fleet, not the NSF as expected.
 

tphuang

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The latest report now puts the new ship being built in Huangpu as the Yuncheng, pennant 569. It will go to the South Seas Fleet, not the NSF as expected.

yeah, honestly I thought it'd make more sense to send it to SSF, because you have 4 advanced DDG in the Sanya base, but only 2 advanced FFG right now. Either way, NSF will get it eventually, since I expect there to be 4 054As in this batch.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
I am going to guess that the 054A being built in Hudong may also end up in the SSF as well. But there is a chance it may be Hudong -> ESF, Huangpu -> SSF. This may open the possibility that a northern based shipyard, perhaps like one of those in Dalian, may end up making 054As for the NSF, much like the production of 022s are spread throughout the coasts.
 
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