052C/052D Class Destroyers

antiterror13 said:

yeahhh, 052D is the most successful destroyers in PLA, in regard the quantity. PLAN mut be very happy with it ... it is a very good value DDG, quite balanced. Wondering how many 052D will be produced finally, ~50 maybe ? I think 50 would be enough and the focus would be on 055 and the successor of 052D

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In one of guancha trio's podcast they did say that it was only ＂a matter of time＂ before they reach 50 052D. Although its not sure when will the next batch of 052D start since I don't think anyone posted any evidence pertaining to more 052Ds being laid down other than the 12-13? ships under construction.

Edit: According to the Chinese wiki which as I understand is mostly accurate and frequently updated there are 37 052Ds launched with 27 in actual service, the 38th 052D might launch in the latter half of this year but the wiki has no data on the 39th ship nor the 40th ship

Tomboy said:

How many 052Ds are confirmed to exist as of right now, I seem to remember 39 being the last count. Has the 40th 052D been spotted?

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The previous count was a while ago and some of the unconfirmed might have been confirmed since:

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Tally as of today:

DDG	In Active Service​	Sea Trials/Fitting Out/Under Construction (Visually Confirmed)​	Purported/Claimed (Unconfirmed)​
055	8​	5​	3​
052D/DG	27​	9​	3​

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But as you can see the total of 39 you cite is not the confirmed total but rather the unconfirmed total. So 39 is what is rumored (credibly but still unconfirmed of course) to be the total number of 052D that will be available after this batch is finished. As such a 40th being spotted right now is pretty unlikely unless there's one the PLA has managed to hide from the grapevine. Otherwise the total number of 052Ds at the end of this batch will be 39.

antiterror13 said:

yeahhh, 052D is the most successful destroyers in PLA, in regard the quantity. PLAN mut be very happy with it ... it is a very good value DDG, quite balanced. Wondering how many 052D will be produced finally, ~50 maybe ? I think 50 would be enough and the focus would be on 055 and the successor of 052D

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PLA doesn't publish long term plans so to some degree this is just speculation but I think another batch of 052D is pretty likely and 50ish is reasonable. What happens next is much more murky but depending on circumstances and how technology develops maybe you'll see successor classes to 055 and 052D early 2030s or something.

Tomboy said:

In one of guancha trio's podcast they did say that it was only ＂a matter of time＂ before they reach 50 052D. Although its not sure when will the next batch of 052D start since I don't think anyone posted any evidence pertaining to more 052Ds being laid down other than the 12-13? ships under construction.

Edit: According to the Chinese wiki which as I understand is mostly accurate and frequently updated there are 37 052Ds launched with 27 in actual service, the 38th 052D might launch in the latter half of this year but the wiki has no data on the 39th ship nor the 40th ship

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Yeah I'm not sure we have all the 12 purported 052Ds of this batch confirmed yet but by this point we're not missing many. I think the guancha trio's podcast is basically saying another batch of 052Ds is coming because there is no way we're going to get to 50 052Ds in this batch. If there is another batch of 12 though that would bring the total to 51 so it's pretty plausible.

As soon as the new GT engines have passed longevity testing I think there will be successor classes launched in large numbers.

I think the number of 052s will really depend on when that happens.

However, I also hope for 50 in total, because we already have around 50 Type 054s, so this would give the PLAN 50 surface action groups, each equivalent to an Arleigh Burke in VLS count and helicopters.

Andy1974 said:

As soon as the new GT engines have passed longevity testing I think there will be successor classes launched in large numbers.

I think the number of 052s will really depend on when that happens.

However, I also hope for 50 in total, because we already have around 50 Type 054s, so this would give the PLAN 50 surface action groups, each equivalent to an Arleigh Burke in VLS count and helicopters.

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Is there any info on this new GT engine are they related to the QC series? We know now that theres a QC400 and a QC500 and they potentially could be used for marine propulsion. 2 QC500 class 50MW gas turbine could comfortably power a 10K ton DDG and also provide extra power for whatever they want to put on there.

If they do get 50 052D in the water by the end of the decade that'll mean the PLAN would have 72 destroyers in total with 50(51 if the next batch comes in 12) 052D, 16 055 and 6 052C(Which likely will have gone through their MLU to bring their capability up to 052D level). This could bring PLAN up to a good 80-90 percent of USN's surface VLS count. I'm not going to count the legacy destroyers(051B, 052B and Modern class etc) as actual destroyers since IMO they are more like extra large 054As.

IMO the days of PLA playing catchup is over, now that they have reached the cutting edge I would expect whatever comes next to be built in larger batches with faster construction time including CVNs and SSNs.

Tomboy said:

Is there any info on this new GT engine are they related to the QC series? We know now that theres a QC400 and a QC500 and they potentially could be used for marine propulsion. 2 QC500 class 50MW gas turbine could comfortably power a 10K ton DDG and also provide extra power for whatever they want to put on there.

If they do get 50 052D in the water by the end of the decade that'll mean the PLAN would have 72 destroyers in total with 50(51 if the next batch comes in 12) 052D, 16 055 and 6 052C(Which likely will have gone through their MLU to being their capability up to 052D level). This could bring PLAN up to a good 80-90 percent of USN's surface VLS count. I'm not going to count the legacy destroyers(051B, 052B and Modern class etc) as actual destroyers since IMO they are more like extra large 054As.

IMO the days of PLA playing catchup is over, now that they have reached the cutting edge I would expect whatever comes next to be built in larger batches with faster construction time including CVNs and SSNs.

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The experts here might berate us for counting VLS, but I am sure it matters to US politicians a great deal.

Consider this please, the 50 SAGs as described above, have 4800 VLS.

Plus 16 SAGs consisting of Types 055 and 054B gives another 2304, for a total of 7104 VLS.

Which is exactly the same number of VLS in the USNs 74 Arleigh Burkes.

However, and crucially, all of the PLANs VLS are larger or significantly larger than the USNs. At this point the PLAN will be ahead of the USN in the minds of US politicians, which is very important IMO.

Andy1974 said:

Which is exactly the same number of VLS in the USNs 74 Arleigh Burkes.

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Technically thats only IIA and III(Which as of right now only have a single ship in service) the 28 legacy flight II and I ships only carries 90 VLS. I predict by the time PLAN launches all 50 052D USN might only be recieving its first batch of actual production flight III ships which isn't enough to replace all 28 of legacy Burkes. So IMO USN in 5 years potentially would be facing 72 modern PLAN destroyers with a semi modern destroyer fleet consisting mostly of old non tech insertion flight IIA ships with some flight I/II ships left over. Also you forgot to account in the extra VLS from legacy destroyer-turned-large-frigates which should have the same type of VLS as 054A frigates, I believe they even mount similar/samw radar systems as well.

Tomboy said:

I'm not going to count the legacy destroyers(051B, 052B and Modern class etc) as actual destroyers since IMO they are more like extra large 054As.

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I think 054A is more focused on ASW whereas the legacy destroyers are more air defense focused and in that context I think they can still give decent service in second line roles. Given the PLA's modernization of them rather than just scrapping them and ordering more 052Ds it seems like they still think they have value. Given the ever increasing role of network centralization in warfare at the very least they can be another sensor node and a mobile HHQ-9B platform.

Andy1974 said:

The experts here might berate us for counting VLS, but I am sure it matters to US politicians a great deal.

Consider this please, the 50 SAGs as described above, have 4800 VLS.

Plus 16 SAGs consisting of Types 055 and 054B gives another 2304, for a total of 7104 VLS.

Which is exactly the same number of VLS in the USNs 74 Arleigh Burkes.

However, and crucially, all of the PLANs VLS are larger or significantly larger than the USNs. At this point the PLAN will be ahead of the USN in the minds of US politicians, which is very important IMO.

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Also considering that the potential war is in South China Sea and Taiwan .. and the USN can't deploy all the ships to that area, while China can .. also land based and air power are available to China

ENTED64 said:

Myslím, že 054A se více zaměřuje na protiponorkovou obranu, zatímco starší torpédoborce se více zaměřují na protivzdušnou obranu, a v tomto kontextu si myslím, že stále mohou poskytovat slušné služby v rolích druhé linie. Vzhledem k tomu, že je PLA modernizovala, a ne jen je sešrotovala a objednala další 052D, zdá se, že si stále myslí, že mají hodnotu. Vzhledem k stále rostoucí roli centralizace sítě ve válčení mohou být přinejmenším dalším senzorovým uzlem a mobilní platformou HHQ-9B.

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Friends, I'll give you a little excitement in numbers. China needs Destroyers for its protection, its trade, bases and aircraft carriers, of which it needs an estimated 5 to 6. It has only one coast in a relatively closed sea. The US, on the other hand, must deploy its fleet in both the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. In addition, it must protect its bases in many parts of the world and control its vassals. Indeed, it can deploy less than half of its fleet, including aircraft carriers, against China at once.
I do not think that it is necessary to match the numbers of the US or exceed them in all categories for the purposes of sufficient defense or counterattack.
I think that the PLAN will soon stop in the number of destroyers and focus more on modernization and replacement of obsolete ships. So, I think that this category will be completed soon.

antiterror13 said:

Also considering that the potential war is in South China Sea and Taiwan .. and the USN can't deploy all the ships to that area, while China can .. also land based and air power are available to China

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Oh, you beat me to it by a few minutes. You said it better than I did.