052C/052D Class Destroyers

Neurosmith said:

All cells within a VLS block should share the same depth.

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That is arguably the key assumption underlying the idea of 32 bow UVLS being 9m.

Being cautious though, the best way of indirectly confirming it more definitively is if we see YJ-18 (or some other weapon that can only be fit in the 9m cell length) launched from one of the outboard, forward most cells (specified below)

TheWanderWit said:

I see what you mean now. If that's the case, then the 052D can pack even more punch than I thought. 16x YJ-18s or any assortment of the other AShMs was already very good and powerful. Makes me wonder then what the number is for the 055 (50-60+?).

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Even if only 64 of the cells on the 055 were strike length, it is unlikely that a vessel would load that many LACM/AShM missiles on any single sortie given the emphasis on air defense for the 055.

Blitzo said:

That is arguably the key assumption underlying the idea of 32 bow UVLS being 9m.

Being cautious though, the best way of indirectly confirming it more definitively is if we see YJ-18 (or some other weapon that can only be fit in the 9m cell length) launched from one of the outboard, forward most cells (specified below)

View attachment 174018

Click to expand...

Yes, although I'd say the chance of the same VLS block having cells of different lengths is small. In the context of that possibility, though, we'd have to see the YJ-18 being launched from all VLS cells to confirm the cell lengths. Which won't happen.

What do we think a typical loadout of 052D VLS would look like?

My guess for a GP loadout would be:

8 x 4 '555' = 32 SR SAM
16 x 2 HHQ-9C = 32 MR SAM
8 x 1 HHQ-9B = 8 LR SAM
4 x 2 VLA-type = 8 ASW
8 x YJ-18 AShM
8 x YJ18C LACM
12 x YJ-17/20 hypersonics (AShM or LA)

Maikeru said:

What do we think a typical loadout of 052D VLS would look like?

My guess for a GP loadout would be:

8 x 4 '555' = 24 SR SAM
16 x 2 HHQ-9C = 32 MR SAM
8 x 1 HHQ-9B = 8 LR SAM
4 x 2 VLA-type = 8 ASW
8 x YJ-18 AShM
8 x YJ18C LACM
12 x YJ-17/20 hypersonics (AShM or LA)

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Off topic, but are we certain that the HQ-9C is an MRSAM rather than a terminal ABM like the PAC-3MSE?

Maikeru said:

What do we think a typical loadout of 052D VLS would look like?

My guess for a GP loadout would be:

8 x 4 '555' = 24 SR SAM
16 x 2 HHQ-9C = 32 MR SAM
8 x 1 HHQ-9B = 8 LR SAM
4 x 2 VLA-type = 8 ASW
8 x YJ-18 AShM
8 x YJ18C LACM
12 x YJ-17/20 hypersonics (AShM or LA)

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Seems very offensive-oriented rather than some standard baseline load out. Although I guess in such a configuration, the defensive load out isn't bad. Also, 8 x 4 quadpacked SAMs would give you 32 SAMs not 24. I'd say for a more standard/balanced load out focused more on AAW, I'd change the "12 x YJ-17/20" to completely HHQ-9Bs, and take 2x cells away from the 555 missiles to add in more HHQ-9Bs.

That would give you just under 80 SAMs of all types. I also think HHQ-9C is more long-range than medium range, and you may be able to fit more than just two ASROC torpedoes in one cell depending on the type. Could use more LRSAMs though.

Speaking of VLS-launched munitions, I'd be curious if an ultra-long range SAM (800-1000km?) has ever been in their minds. I don't believe such a thing would be difficult to develop given there are already 1000km+ ranged munitions that exist and can fit in UVLS, and would essentially provide extreme area-defense against larger, slower air targets (tankers/bombers/special-mission aircraft/etc.) and maybe other air-based targets like ballistics maybe? It could only be used to its full potential with the use of an AEW though. We all remember the topic from months ago on the CJ-1000s ability to possibly be able to engage air targets. IIRC, S-500 is quite large and mainly ABM focused but is also designed with the ability to engage slow moving air targets at longer ranges than even the 40N6E (400km) of the S-400.

@Neurosmith:

Yes, although I'd say the chance of the same VLS block having cells of different lengths is small. In the context of that possibility, though, we'd have to see the YJ-18 being launched from all VLS cells to confirm the cell lengths. Which won't happen.

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I know, I wasn't trying to imply an 055 would ever carry such a massive load out. As many as 35-40x+ LACMs/YJ-17/19/20 isn't unrealistic though in an offensive/anti-ship configuration. Ticonderoga-class cruisers have launched as many as 30 Tomahawks in a single go before.

Maikeru said:

What do we think a typical loadout of 052D VLS would look like?

My guess for a GP loadout would be:

8 x 4 '555' = 24 SR SAM
16 x 2 HHQ-9C = 32 MR SAM
8 x 1 HHQ-9B = 8 LR SAM
4 x 2 VLA-type = 8 ASW
8 x YJ-18 AShM
8 x YJ18C LACM
12 x YJ-17/20 hypersonics (AShM or LA)

Click to expand...

I imagine the bulk, at least 50% of most 052D's VLS would be made up of HHQ-9B. Strike is not a role of high importance for 052Ds and high-end anti-surface warfare (YJ-17/20) for the next few years will likely be a job delegated to 055 and land/air power. As of now, there is not much need for that many HHQ-9C as ASBM threats are mostly limited to a few PrSM Inc. 2 and Standard Missile family for the near future, which would also be much more valuable on the American side for anything but anti-shipping.

Neurosmith said:

Off topic, but are we certain that the HQ-9C is an MRSAM rather than a terminal ABM like the PAC-3MSE?

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Technically it can be both in the same way PAC-3MSE can be seen as both.

Maikeru said:

What do we think a typical loadout of 052D VLS would look like?

My guess for a GP loadout would be:

8 x 4 '555' = 32 SR SAM
16 x 2 HHQ-9C = 32 MR SAM
8 x 1 HHQ-9B = 8 LR SAM
4 x 2 VLA-type = 8 ASW
8 x YJ-18 AShM
8 x YJ18C LACM
12 x YJ-17/20 hypersonics (AShM or LA)

Click to expand...

I think there is no such thing as a "GP loadout" as the loadout will always be determined by a ship's specific deployment and thus the rest of its taskforce.

00CuriousObserver said:

Apparently all 32 front VLS cells on the 052D should have a depth of 9m

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On this, SOYO said "That is normal, because there are no propulsion shafts in the bow" and Shilao reposted SOYO's Weibo post. I see this as a soft affirmation from them.

052D is conducting a high-speed test.