I’m okay with him providing the link...
052C/052D Class Destroyers
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
by78
General
I'm not OK with that. There are many members who don't read Chinese. More importantly, there are the forum rules, the adherence to which he is very fond of advocating (at least to me).
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
10th 052D Taiyuan/太原 #131 gets hull number painted.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Even a Google Translation would be better than nothing. Not that Google Translations are anything good, suffice to say.
Generally speaking I think if there is no English on a piece at all (like an abstract for a scientific paper, or an opening summary in English) I think it would be good etiquette to attempt to do a translation oneself and to summarize the main points and the relevance of those main points.
If even an attempt cannot be made, then requesting a translation in the same post would be good as well.
If even an attempt cannot be made, then requesting a translation in the same post would be good as well.
Since the last time we’ve had this discussion I’ve given how we should go about handling Chinese primary sources some thought. I think in particular within the rules we should be providing some commonly agreed upon guidelines that give more detail about how we should go about sharing Chinese primary sources.
Personally, I’m of the thinking that links to articles, untranslated but without copying the text into the post itself, aren’t ideal, but permissible. Links to Chinese forum pages should always have the text of the relevant comments either screencapped or copied into the post. Both should be accompanied with a basic description of the contents (does not have to be accurate, just enough to provide a gist), in English, and a request for translation assistance if no full translation is posted. Copying Chinese texts into posts should similarly be accompanied with at least a basic English description. Meanwhile, machine translations of Chinese should always be accompanied by the original Chinese text, though we might want to extend this to *all* translations of Chinese sources, since different people may naturally have different interpretations of either the text, or how to best translate the text in a way that communicates the same meaning in English. Just some initial thoughts about how we may want to go about revising standardizing our approach to sharing Chinese source material.
by78
General
Providing a link to a Chinese thread without a summary of the content in English or even a request for translation is against current rules. It's also super lazy and almost rudely condescending, as if to say, hey you lowly plebs, here's a scrap from my high table, and if you can't understand it, well tough luck.
It's better to go the extra – and required – mile or just don't bother at all.
I've been wondering why it bothers me when a link is posted without attempts of translation or requests for others to do a translation, and though I wouldn't have phrased it the way you did, I think you hit it on the head.
IMO it's just good etiquette to make an attempt to describe:
1: what the contents of a piece is saying
2: why the contents of the piece are relevant
If an attempt cannot be made, then requesting a translation should definitely be done.
And I don't want to point fingers at Klon or anyone else, because I think we've probably all done something like that in the past, and Klon has also posted links before in the past where summaries have been given.
What is confusing however is when a link is provided by and we do not know if the OP is actually able to read and understand what was being written or not, which means the way the post is interpreted will be different -- i.e.: was the OP able to understand the piece and couldn't be bothered translating the main points, or was the OP unable to understand the piece and relied on machine translation and is posting it here simply for the sake of more exposure or perhaps is indirectly offering the opportunity for others who can read the language to translate it? etc.
Since apparently everyone gets to have a say about how things should be done, here's my opinion.
First, I think users should have some perspective. For example, people who never (or very rarely) post anything (of the kind that's relevant here, articles in Chinese) have, in my view, very little standing to make demands (suggestions) about the right way to do that.
Second, and I've mentioned this in the previous episodes when discussing this issue, that I post a machine translation or no translation at all is no impediment to anyone else making whichever productive contribution they want. Anyone could have (and still can) provided a full (human or machine) translation or summary of the article (but nobody will, because that's harder than telling people what to do).
Also, realistically, had I not posted the article, it's very likely that nobody would have done it (not that it's hard to do, the record just shows that almost nobody else does). I really don't see why some people apparently find it personally insulting to have an article in Chinese posted without translation or a request for translation. My perspective when making such a post is the same as when I link an article in English: if anyone wants to read it, they can. If they don't speak Chinese (or English), they can use a translator, which takes minimal effort. I don't think it's always necessary to post the full article or even a summary.
I still don't intend to do anything differently.
First, I think users should have some perspective. For example, people who never (or very rarely) post anything (of the kind that's relevant here, articles in Chinese) have, in my view, very little standing to make demands (suggestions) about the right way to do that.
Second, and I've mentioned this in the previous episodes when discussing this issue, that I post a machine translation or no translation at all is no impediment to anyone else making whichever productive contribution they want. Anyone could have (and still can) provided a full (human or machine) translation or summary of the article (but nobody will, because that's harder than telling people what to do).
Also, realistically, had I not posted the article, it's very likely that nobody would have done it (not that it's hard to do, the record just shows that almost nobody else does). I really don't see why some people apparently find it personally insulting to have an article in Chinese posted without translation or a request for translation. My perspective when making such a post is the same as when I link an article in English: if anyone wants to read it, they can. If they don't speak Chinese (or English), they can use a translator, which takes minimal effort. I don't think it's always necessary to post the full article or even a summary.
I still don't intend to do anything differently.
by78
General
@Jeff Head @Deino @siegecrossbow @T-U-P
Should @Klon be exempt when it comes to the forum rule requiring an "English translation for any non-English post and any links posted"? Or should we simply strike that rule entirely?
I'm genuinely curious.
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