052/052B Class Destroyers

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Find it difficult to comprehend the rationale behind the MLUs for the 051B, 052B, and SOVs (including the first two 054s). While I know that members of this community may come up with various scenarios and logics, but given the scope of these DDGs, the current MLU campaigns are a waste of funds, time and resources :rolleyes:.

It may, however, be suitably equipped with more VLS and other armament systems as well as the newest radars, sensors, and equipment (AESA panels etc.), which would undoubtedly supplement the 052Ds and PLAN for the First Island Chain (at least 2nd line of defense with 054As).

Seeing the recent MLU drive the fate of 051Cs/052Cs are not bright too :(. Its fair to say they are turning these DDGs to FFGs. We are talking 17 ships (051B/051Cs/052Bs/052Cs/SOVs) along with two 054s, not many countries have that many ships in their entire fleet.

Apart from what @gelgoog and @plawolf have explained - All the Chinese DDG classes which precede the 052C are being turned into essentially large FFGs are also mainly because the PLAN had no other choices.

Inherent of the original designs of those DDGs, there is negligible potential to upgrade all those 051B, 051C, 052 and 052B DDGs to have equivalent capabilities to the 052Cs (of which their introduction essentially marked a new chapter for the PLAN, i.e. the AESA AEGIS-era), let alone the 052Ds - Or in other words, making them equally if not similarly as capable of fighting high intensity naval warfare on the high seas as those Chinese AEGIS DDGs. Even if there is the potential, the enormous costs and efforts required to realize that would be better spent building more 052Ds, 055s and their successors/follow-ons.

Therefore, it makes more sense to upgrade them into essentially large FFGs, as the modifications involved would be less demanding and easier to achieve, alongside the pros of sharing similar systems with the 054/054A FFGs that are already widespread across the PLAN.

Sure, "losing" 11x DDGs certainly sounds like a big loss in a fleet of 50x DDGs (i.e. one-fifth of the entire force) - But now, the PLAN is actually commissioning way more new warships per year than they are retiring older ships. So there's that.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Two more images of post upgrade.

53676321313_2bafa30214_k.jpg
53676101741_db2a9081e5_k.jpg

Looks like ceremony of commissioning.
 

para80

Junior Member
Registered Member
I thought this was on the occasion of her being an open ship for the Navy Day celebrations.
 

pkj

Junior Member
Registered Member
Apart from what @gelgoog and @plawolf have explained - All the Chinese DDG classes which precede the 052C are being turned into essentially large FFGs are also mainly because the PLAN had no other choices.

Inherent of the original designs of those DDGs, there is negligible potential to upgrade all those 051B, 051C, 052 and 052B DDGs to have equivalent capabilities to the 052Cs (of which their introduction essentially marked a new chapter for the PLAN, i.e. the AESA AEGIS-era), let alone the 052Ds - Or in other words, making them equally if not similarly as capable of fighting high intensity naval warfare on the high seas as those Chinese AEGIS DDGs. Even if there is the potential, the enormous costs and efforts required to realize that would be better spent building more 052Ds, 055s and their successors/follow-ons.

Therefore, it makes more sense to upgrade them into essentially large FFGs, as the modifications involved would be less demanding and easier to achieve, alongside the pros of sharing similar systems with the 054/054A FFGs that are already widespread across the PLAN.

Sure, "losing" 11x DDGs certainly sounds like a big loss in a fleet of 50x DDGs (i.e. one-fifth of the entire force) - But now, the PLAN is actually commissioning way more new warships per year than they are retiring older ships. So there's that.

I'm sure turning them into large FFGs undouble increased their firepower.

But since PLAN is already pumping out new ships with AESAs (& presumably the full combat/electronics suites that go with them), why turn them into just more 054A, instead of 054Bs?

Just seems a bit half-hearted...
 
But since PLAN is already pumping out new ships with AESAs (& presumably the full combat/electronics suites that go with them), why turn them into just more 054A, instead of 054Bs?
You can't just slap on an AESA radar, you would need to modify the entire superstructure of the ship in order to accommodate the panels for new AESA arrays. AESA arrays also require advanced cooling, which will add significant weight to the ship as well as requiring a large amount of space. Packing 8-16 YJ-12s already offer the refitted destroyers a significant tactical capability that the 054As do not have/need.
 

pkj

Junior Member
Registered Member
You can't just slap on an AESA radar, you would need to modify the entire superstructure of the ship in order to accommodate the panels for new AESA arrays. AESA arrays also require advanced cooling, which will add significant weight to the ship as well as requiring a large amount of space. Packing 8-16 YJ-12s already offer the refitted destroyers a significant tactical capability that the 054As do not have/need.

Yes. Understood. it will take more structure changes, time, $, etc.

But still wondering why such investment (using at least the 2 faced AESA for the 054B and for the newest 052DL) was not made for these DDGs.

Especially when PLAN has stopped building 054As and is building more modern 054Bs
 
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But still wondering why such investment (using at least the 2 faced AESA for the 054B and for the newest 052DL) was not made for these DDGs.

Especially when PLAN has stopped building 054As and is building more modern 054Bs

It's not just about the cost. Ships are designed to distribute their weight in a specific way. Adding an AESA is going to add significant weight to the forward portion of the ship. Even adding 054B type AESA requires new superstructure (and a lot of internal systems, ie cooling) to the ship. Also the AESA will increase power requirements, and we don't know if these older destroyers have sufficient spare power capacity.

The fact that China is building more 054BS means it is LESS necessary for the older destroyers to receive AESAs. These refit destroyers are not going to be operating alone - all they need is the latest and greatest CEC systems - not AESAs of their own.
 

pkj

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's not just about the cost. Ships are designed to distribute their weight in a specific way. Adding an AESA is going to add significant weight to the forward portion of the ship. Even adding 054B type AESA requires new superstructure (and a lot of internal systems, ie cooling) to the ship. Also the AESA will increase power requirements, and we don't know if these older destroyers have sufficient spare power capacity.

The fact that China is building more 054BS means it is LESS necessary for the older destroyers to receive AESAs. These refit destroyers are not going to be operating alone - all they need is the latest and greatest CEC systems - not AESAs of their own.


It's not just about the cost. Ships are designed to distribute their weight in a specific way. Adding an AESA is going to add significant weight to the forward portion of the ship. Even adding 054B type AESA requires new superstructure (and a lot of internal systems, ie cooling) to the ship. Also the AESA will increase power requirements, and we don't know if these older destroyers have sufficient spare power capacity.

I do not know the weight/pwr of the new 2-faced AESA vs the old 2-faced 382. But this does not seem like an engineering barrier that PLAN can't overcome if they wanted to make the investment.


The fact that China is building more 054BS means it is LESS necessary for the older destroyers to receive AESAs. These refit destroyers are not going to be operating alone - all they need is the latest and greatest CEC systems - not AESAs of their own.

Yup. This may be part of the final PLANs calculations for these hulls.

But given that it's 10+ DDG hulls that still have good service lives, it seems (to a layman like me) to be a bit short-sighted to not make the extra investment to bring them up to something closer to the new 054B standard instead of the older 054A.

Thanks for all the responses. I will not post any more questions on this topic :)
 
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