J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

[b787]

To all the experts; how is the wing area calculated?

The wing is measure as an airfoil, from wing root chord to wing tip chord, that is called exposed wing, however as airforce brat said that does not tell you the whole concept because aircraft have two wings one for each side plus they have a center of gravity, therefore you can use the squared wing span to generate an area where the wing is acting thus part of the fuselage will fall under that area that is called reference wing area.

To calculate an area of an exposed wing you have to consider wing type for example Su-27 has a compound wing and your calculation you did, does not include the Lex for Su-27 and the pancake which also is an airfoil and you did not include part of the J-20 trailing wing extension and lex.

Some companies also include the horizontal stabilizers.

 

[b787]

New diagrams comparing the J-20 to the F-22 and Su-57 (based a length measurement of 20.77 meters).

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I can live with that number despite also it is not official, however to understand why western analysts think it is an interceptor , you have to see 2 aspects.

Why the J-20 has a longer fuselage than F-22, see that F-22 from nozzle end tip to radome is around 17 meters, while J-20 from nose tip to nozzle end tip is around 20.

Tell me why it has a longer fuselage? the effects it will have in weight airframe structure, fuel carrying capacity and the force it will generate n times multiplied by gravity, the need it will have for structural reinforcement?

 

[siegecrossbow]

I can live with that number despite also it is not official, however to understand why western analysts think it is an interceptor , you have to see 2 aspects.

Why the J-20 has a longer fuselage than F-22, see that F-22 from nozzle end tip to radome is around 17 meters, while J-20 from nose tip to nozzle end tip is around 20.

Tell me why it has a longer fuselage? the effects it will have in weight airframe structure, fuel carrying capacity and the force it will generate n times multiplied by gravity, the need it will have for structural reinforcement?

J-10 also has a longer fuselage than the F-16 because the J-10 lags behind in engine technology. I respectfully don't see how your point stands.

 

[b787]

J-10 also has a longer fuselage than the F-16 because the J-10 lags behind in engine technology. I respectfully don't see how your point stands.

i will put it easier, longer fuselage does it have more volume? if it has more volume why? why that need to have extra volume?

why you will add extra volume? see the drawing you originally posted and the J-20 is as wide in fuselage cross section as an F-22 and from wing chord rood to wing tip chord its wing is shorter look at the top view and the wing also is smaller that will impact wing loading.

The answer is simple, J-20 carries very likely more fuel, more fuel impacts weight, more volume does the same, the J-20 is very likely with WS-15 is a much longer range aircraft than F-22, with Al-31 that extra volume will give it similar range if not more than an F-22.


Why? the J-22 is designed to operate with a very long range, it makes sense if it has to fly over continental Asia or the west pacific ocean

 

[siegecrossbow]

i will put it easier, longer fuselage does it have more volume? if it has more volume why? why that need to have extra volume?

why you will add extra volume? see the drawing you originally posted and the J-20 is as wide in fuselage cross section as an F-22 and from wing chord rood to wing tip chord its wing is shorter look at the top view and the wing also is smaller that will impact wing loading.

The answer is simple, J-20 carries very likely more fuel, more fuel impacts weight, more volume does the same, the J-20 is very likely with WS-15 is a much longer range aircraft than F-22, with Al-31 that extra volume will give it similar range if not more than an F-22.


Why? the J-22 is designed to operate with a very long range, it makes sense if it has to fly over continental Asia or the west pacific ocean

The wings are thinner though, so they probably needed the longer fuselage to optimize both supersonic performance and allow more room for fuel.

 

[b787]

The wings are thinner though, so they probably needed the longer fuselage to optimize both supersonic performance and allow more room for fuel.

thinner wings do generate more lift or less lift?
Do the An-124, C-5, A-380 or B-747 do they have thin or thick wings with lot of camber?

you your self are now heading why the western analyst say it is an interceptor, tell me which aircraft has better TWR J-20 or F-22?
If it has thinner wings, smaller wings, and higher swept do you think it will generate more lift at slow speeds?

Have you ever seen aircraft that operate at 500-600 km/h do have they thin or thick wings, lot of sweep or little swept wings?
Example A-10 or su-25? do they have wings like J-20?


where is the higher instantaneous turn rate at 600 km/h or 1900km/h for F-15?

where is the higher G load F-15 can get at 600km/h or 1800km/h?

Consider that if you want to say J-20 is an air superiority

 

[manqiangrexue]

thinner wings do generate more lift or less lift?
Do the An-124, C-5, A-380 or B-747 do they have thin or thick wings with lot of camber?

you your self are now heading why the western analyst say it is an interceptor, tell me which aircraft has better TWR J-20 or F-22?
If it has thinner wings, smaller wings, and higher swept do you think it will generate more lift at slow speeds?

Have you ever seen aircraft that operate at 500-600 km/h do have they thin or thick wings, lot of sweep or little swept wings?
Example A-10 or su-25? do they have wings like J-20?


where is the higher instantaneous turn rate at 600 km/h or 1900km/h for F-15?

where is the higher G load F-15 can get at 600km/h or 1800km/h?

Consider that if you want to say J-20 is an air superiority

Your "logic" is because J-20 is longer than F-22 so it is less of an air superiority fighter?? LOL So because F-22 is longer than Typhoon and Rafale, therefore F-22 is more interceptor and less air superiority than those two? Because Su-57 is longer than F-22, therefore it is also interceptor? LOL

Why don't you refute the scientific paper on the design of the J-20 as an air superiority fighter instead of pouring out Google aerodynamics?

 

[b787]

Your "logic" is because J-20 is longer than F-22 so it is less of an air superiority fighter?? LOL So because F-22 is longer than Typhoon and Rafale, therefore F-22 is more interceptor and less air superiority than those two? Because Su-57 is longer than F-22, therefore it is also interceptor? LOL

Why don't you refute the scientific paper on the design of the J-20 as an air superiority fighter instead of pouring out Google aerodynamics?

relax I am not in the J-20 club nor I am a loyal fan and cheer leader as most of the Chinese expatriate, but i will ask what would happen if F-22 loses its TVC nozzles versus Rafale that has lower wing loading?


No volume is explained unless you consider fuel and weapons bays, however you chose not even aerodynamics, but cheer leading the club, go J-20 one two three go! more volume is not needed unless you need to pack something such a longer S intake duck, longer weapons bays, longer internal fuel tanks. longer engines and ah! i forgot that adds weight, Ah! J-20 is flying with lower thrust yield engine but the club does a bit of cheer leading and thumping of chest haha, that is beyond your logic no volume is explained unless you consider more internal space for stuffing more things, but of course when pride wins intelligence and logic do not work

 

[manqiangrexue]

relax I am not in the J-20 club nor I am a loyal fan and cheer leader as most of the Chinese expatriate, but i will ask what would happen if F-22 loses its TVC nozzles versus Rafale that has lower wing loading?


No volume is explained unless you consider fuel and weapons bays, however you chose not even aerodynamics, but cheer leading the club, go J-20 one two three go! more volume is not needed unless you need to pack something such a longer S intake duck, longer weapons bays, longer internal fuel tanks. longer engines and ah! i forgot that adds weight, Ah! J-20 is flying with lower thrust yield engine but the club does a bit of cheer leading and thumping of chest haha, that is beyond your logic no volume is explained unless you consider more internal space for stuffing more things, but of course when pride wins intelligence and logic do not work

And you're in the pretend-to-know-and-ask-stupid-irrelevant-questions club. You've got dual membership, with the Su-57-is-a-6th-gen-fighter club complete with your vodka-doused pompoms LOL

I actually challenge you to look through all of my posts to find any where I make a claim of how wonderful the J-20 is, because I didn't. Either I translated something from a Chinese source (J-20 empty weight 15 tonne range), or I simply refuted the broken logic of people like you who claim to know things that you cannot possibly know.

And don't forget: what do you think about the original scientific paper written on J-20's aerodynamics?Ignore it? Pretend it doesn't exist? Keep spewing Google aerodynamics as if it's convincing anybody? LOL

PS. Get ready to transition this conversation to your past failed relationships and/or your many illegitimate children again.

 

[b787]

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longer Fuselage longer S inlet ducts, longer fuselage wider space between intake lips and jet nozzle pipes therefore you can store more fuel easily