J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VI

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Deino

Lieutenant General
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simply post it here (those who follow this stuff will find)


Here it is:


To admit I’m disappointed with that report since it draws a few – IMO misleading or even wrong - conclusions based on quotes that were put into the wrong context:

First of all concluding the “J-20’s missions appears to be maritime reconnaissance and targeting for antiship ballistic missiles and in support of ship-launched cruise missiles” is most of all wrong. From all we know including the Chief designer’s official papers to official PLAAF statements, the J-20 is a pure-fighter. I remember old reports hinted that role, but IMO this is no longer valid. The J-20 might have a secondary attack role, but surely not as its primary intention. Also these reports about “a precision air-to-surface missile with a 600-mile range” are all wrong; in fact they are even ludicrous. There have indeed been reports concerning the latest PL-XX, a giant ultra-long-range AAM to counter tankers, AEW and other primary assets from long distance (maximum 300+km), but that weapon is far too large to fit the weapons bays, which can only hold two PL-15 each, complemented by two PL-10 short-range AAMs in the side bays.

The second issue is related to three quotes of my report (thank You by the way), but I meant them in a very different way:


1. My original report said nothing to maneuverability but I said "Currently the fighter is underpowered ... at least until the planned WS-15 engine is available. In the meantime, the J-20's engines are probably adequate and will provide flight performance at least comparable to the latest J-11B fighter." (in quote 3)


2. Also (in quote 5) You imply another conclusion: “As for the development of a genuine 5th generation combat aircraft, China obviously has a long way to go.” This is an apparent reference to China’s problems developing advanced engines and avionics.

Again, this was also meant regarding the still not available WS-15 and in no way related to any issues concerning its avionics


3. And finally ... (in quote 8): Andreas Rupprecht writes “The J-20 is most likely no match for the F-22 and the F-35…” again a misquote: My original sentence was ... "As regards to stealth the J-20 is most likely no match for the F-22 and the F-35 (see the non-stealthy engine exhaust, the uncovered countermeasures launchers and other details)." That does not imply the J-20 is no match for the F-22 or F-35; only it has still some shortcomings concerning stealth.


Don’t get me wrong and I surely do not want to either hype the J-20 not to diminish the F-22 and F-35 but sometimes I have the feeling that reports like this come to over-simplistic conclusions … and it’s never good to underestimate any opponent.


By the way in the next Combat Aircraft Issue, an updated report for the J-20 will be published.

Andreas Rupprecht
 

siegecrossbow

General
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To be fair it is a private website. They can do as they fit :(. A lot of the so-called censorship are also done by the website's own volition to either preserve the company image or protect the company's affiliates.

For the time being, let's return to J-20 related discussions.
 

b787

Captain
Here it is:


To admit I’m disappointed with that report since it draws a few – IMO misleading or even wrong - conclusions based on quotes that were put into the wrong context:

First of all concluding the “J-20’s missions appears to be maritime reconnaissance and targeting for antiship ballistic missiles and in support of ship-launched cruise missiles” is most of all wrong. From all we know including the Chief designer’s official papers to official PLAAF statements, the J-20 is a pure-fighter. I remember old reports hinted that role, but IMO this is no longer valid. The J-20 might have a secondary attack role, but surely not as its primary intention.
If you want to understand why they say that you have to understand the size of the machine it self, consider the size of the weapons bays, if you just look at the main landing gear to the inlet lip you will notice the F-22 has a shorter size weapons bays, also it is no mystery the J-20 by having a longer nose to nozzle section it will be able to carry more fuel.
By weapons bays and fuel tanks you can easily guess with economical engines will have longer range and very likely bigger weapons inside the bays.


The J-20 then can be easily considered more of an interceptor interdictor fighter.

From the nozzle to nose section you can see they are packing more volume than F-22, without TVC nozzles and a 1.4 TWR at combat it is unlikely it will be a match to F-22, thus it it will operate over the sea operation with lower TWR then it is more or less like an F-35.

You have to consider the thrust it has now, not what it might have in 10 years.

The weight is not 15 tonnes as a poster suggested it will not make sense for the following reason, Su-27 will operate at 24 tonnes and its Al-31s will give it enough TWR to be in the 1:1.27 ratio, if the J-20 is so light then it will not need WS-15.

J-20 at least weight 29-30 tonnes at normal take off weight and a Max weight of 36 tonnes, thus to get a fighter type TWR it will need at least engines in the region of 15-17 tonnes like Su-57 and F-22.

WS-15 even you think the lowest thrust should be 15 tonnes and that will be a decent 1:1.1 TWR at normal take off

More or less like Su-57, thus it will explain you easily why they bought Su-35.


If in the future it has engines in the range of 15-17 tonnes it will become very likely a pure fighter, but as for now it has the numbers of an interceptor and an interdictor.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think the J-20 as it stands is similar to the Panavia Tornado.

There was a long range interceptor version for patrolling the GIUK gap in the Atlantic ocean against Soviet bombers.

But there were also Electronic Warfare and low-level strike versions.
 

jobjed

Captain
I think the J-20 as it stands is similar to the Panavia Tornado.

There was a long range interceptor version for patrolling the GIUK gap in the Atlantic ocean against Soviet bombers.

But there were also Electronic Warfare and low-level strike versions.

The Tornado never possessed supersonic manoeuvrability that put it at an entire level above contemporary fighters.
 

by78

General
Newly released old photos...

37388395604_8bec9c8749_k.jpg

26320732259_4c684e1768_o.jpg
 
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