The War in the Ukraine

A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
baykalov

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
solarz said:
I think it was said somewhere that Russia outshoots Ukraine 10:1 on artillery, and now this article says Ukraine is being limited not by the amount of artillery pieces it has, but by the amount of ammunition that the West can supply it?

Assuming that is true, this means Russia can outproduce NATO, if not by 10 to 1, at least 2 or 3 to 1.
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According to another article in Politico US is struggling badly to supply Ukraine with enough munitions. US defense dept estimates US 155mm shell production may reach 40,000 rounds per month by 2025. Russia fires that many artillery shells in a few days.

It is also interesting that the Politico article now openly says that this is "a hot proxy war with Russia in Ukraine".

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“High-end conflict consumes a lot of munitions and a lot of weaponry,” Mike McCord, the Pentagon’s top budget official, said in an interview. “We are also looking at the supply chain limitations. We haven’t got this figured out just yet.”

Top Pentagon and industry officials maintain that efforts are finally ramping up to replace the weapons that the United States and its allies have shipped to Ukraine — depleting stockpiles that are deemed crucial to deterring China or other potential adversaries for years to come.

“There’s a lot of urgency,” Army Secretary Christine Wormuth told reporters. “Congress is sending billions of dollars to the Department of Defense, and we are turning that around and getting that on contract — I would say two to three times faster than we normally do.”

She cited recent deals for tens of thousands of 155mm artillery rounds that the Ukrainians are using up almost as soon as they arrive. By the spring, “we will be able to do 20,000 rounds a month,” she said.

But it will take time to manufacture enough of them, she said, adding that the U.S. will get that rate up to 40,000 rounds a month in the spring of 2025.

Indeed, reigniting plants that make artillery, rockets, missiles and air defenses that were tailored for peacetime efficiency — rather than war-time production — is proving a massive task.

“We spend a lot of money on some very exquisite large systems and we do not spend as much on the munitions necessary to support those,” Gregory Hayes, the CEO of Raytheon Technologies, said during a panel discussion. “We have not had a priority on fulfilling the war reserves that we need to fight a long-term battle.”

The Army’s top weapons buyer also cautioned that responding to a “real large-scale war” won’t happen overnight.

“People haven’t seen one in a while,” Doug Bush said in an interview, “so I think we’ve forgotten that with true industrial mobilization, there’s always a time aspect to it and it’s never instantaneous.”

“I think we’re closer to a wartime mode, which has been something I’ve been working on to build,” he added.

But it is all going to take a lot more time and significantly more money.

“The thing that gives me most pause if I watch what’s happening right now with depletion of armaments is that the U.S. industrial base couldn’t just spin up and do massive World War II-type production or even for a regional conflict the way people probably presume,” said Dan Jablonsky, the CEO of Maxar, the commercial satellite imagery company that has played a major role in giving the world a view of the Ukraine conflict.

“We can do those things, but we can’t do them at a massive scale like we used to do,” he added in an interview. “It is not geared that way.”

Lawmakers are also concerned about how much more appetite the American public has given the ever-ballooning price tag.

“I think we all have been so impressed by the Ukrainians and you’ve got to back them as much as possible,” said Rep. Elissa Slotkin (D-Mich.), a former DoD and CIA official. “But I knocked on 80,000 doors and Ukraine came up in my election in Central Michigan. People are like, ‘I really support them and I want them to succeed, but when do we stop giving billions of dollars and is there an endgame?’
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B

Biscuits

Colonel
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sheogorath said:
Seems they aimed them in the correct direction this time instead of hitting Croatia again. And no Ukranian "wunderwaffen" drone, as someone expected, either.

Again the Russians get fucked more over complacency than over actual Ukranian strategic and tactical prowess.
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Not sure this is complacency as opposed to such drones just being fairly hard to find when they're low flying. The drawback is also obvious, they do little damage.

The Saudis also got regularly fucked over by such attacks until they imported laser weapons.
 
sheogorath

sheogorath

Colonel
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Biscuits said:
Not sure this is complacency as opposed to such drones just being fairly hard to find when they're low flying. The drawback is also obvious, they do little damage.

The Saudis also got regularly fucked over by such attacks until they imported laser weapons.
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The Tu-141/143 is rather ancient, though and should be known quantity. Also, its shape and large size shouldn't have been issue to be picked up by an A-50 had they one on the air 24/7 providing coverage all along the border
 
S

SolarWarden

Junior Member
Registered Member
sheogorath said:
The Tu-141/143 is rather ancient, though and should be known quantity. Also, its shape and large size shouldn't have been issue to be picked up by an A-50 had they one on the air 24/7 providing coverage all along the border
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Likely got rigged with GPS which is why we haven't heard of the Tu-141/143 in ages. That sucker is almost as big as a Mig-21 with an RCS the size of a bus and Russia's IADS did nothing?

You can see and hear no SAMs were used
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599667237937623041
 
A

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
sheogorath said:
I was thinking that by now, even the Presidential Palace would be pure rubble if this had been a NATO campaign.
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Nato campaign doesn't end with annexation... that's the big difference. Annexing rubble is quite sad. Maybe it's why the front just stay put in the middle of waste lands. They are waiting to take big bites not in rubbles.
 
A

Atomicfrog

Major
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SolarWarden said:
Likely got rigged with GPS which is why we haven't heard of the Tu-141/143 in ages. That sucker is almost as big as a Mig-21 with an RCS the size of a bus and Russia's IADS did nothing?

You can see and hear no SAMs were used
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1599667237937623041
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The one that have gone the wrong way the 10 March 2022 and passed over all of Hungary to crash in the middle of Croatia didn't get intercepted either... low flying supersonic don't give time to react, Still, even then, Air coverage is clearly inadequate, some people are sleeping in the VKS big time.
 
P

pmc

Colonel
Registered Member
solarz said:
I think it was said somewhere that Russia outshoots Ukraine 10:1 on artillery, and now this article says Ukraine is being limited not by the amount of artillery pieces it has, but by the amount of ammunition that the West can supply it?

Assuming that is true, this means Russia can outproduce NATO, if not by 10 to 1, at least 2 or 3 to 1.
Click to expand...
its about industrial priorities. European have there own shipyards making Carriers, Frigates, Subs, Aircraft, choppers and some of Europe industrial capacities are dedicated to exporting to US. why do you think Europe has trade surplus with US?. Europe especially Germany emphasis this industrial chain importance when it want to influence other countries like US/China/Middleast.
 
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