Ukrainian War Developments

[4Runner]

I am not a nationalist of any kind. My cultural background is eclectic. I relate well to people of very diverse heritages.

I have met Americans who believe that the USA backed the wrong side in the Sino-Japanese War (1937-45).
They believe that the USA should have done more to help Japan 'liberate' China and resolve 'the China problem' forever.

A self-described 'liberal' American said that the Japanese always have been much more humane than the Chinese in war.
He said that everyone knows that the Japanese always have been much more honest than the Chinese about history.
He implied that the Nanjing Massacre was a fabrication of Chinese racist propaganda or, at worst, an understandable
response by the Japanese toward the many Chinese atrocities against Japanese civilians.

As far as I can infer, denial of the Nanjing Massacre seems to be at least a semi-respectable position in the USA.
Many Americans apparently assume that there's no way to decide objectively (meaning only Western judgments)
between Chinese assertions and Japanese denials, so they prefer to give the Japanese the benefit of the doubt.
Americans are much more inclined to accept claims of Japanese war crimes against Westerners than against Chinese.

While many, if not most, Americans like to harp upon China's alleged genocides of Tibetans and Uyghurs,
I have noticed fewer Americans who express any sympathy for Chinese suffering arising from Japan's invasions.

Being called a 'China lover' is about the worst insult that can be made in US politics recently.

Fundamentally, it is racism toward China, period. I said with 30-year living experience here. On this subject, American don't know history and don't want to know that history. They just believe in what they want to believe, because Japan is an ally and China is a threat. So there is no point and no hope of arguing with anyone on this subject. But I guess Americans will have to go through 5 stages of denial some day in a distance future. China is a civilization more than a nation state. China is going nowhere. And history says that give 50 or more years of peace, China always was the largest economy in the world. If Americans are stupid enough to make 1.5 billion Chinese their enemy, there is nothing you and I can do. It would just be fate.

 

[enroger]

Its in Russian so have your browser to auto-translate

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502 bad gateway.... I wonder if it's blocked

Say, is topwar.ru any good?

 

[meckhardt98]

Sources within the Ukrainian MoD said that it was an S300PS system that brought down the Su30-SM today.

 

[Lapin]

WW2 may as well have been a thousand years ago for many today (not limited to the US or the West). Others recall China helped many of those involved in the Dolittle Raid get back home, the Rape of Nanjing, and the taking of Chinese territory by Japan. I'd always considered China an ally in WWII, albeit one that didn't have the resources to fight outside its country.

Many cultures (including Chinese and Russian) have longer historical memories than Americans tend to have,
though I note that many Confederate sympathizers seem obsessed with details about the events of 1861-65.

In the 1982 film 'The Go Masters' (a Sino-Japanese co-production) there's a scene of Chinese singing a patriotic song.
When watching it, an elderly woman in my family (who was a young girl when Japan invaded China) started to sing
along (which she rarely did), hardly able to restrain her tears.

According even to American sources, the Japanese massacred an estimated 250,000 Chinese (including entire villages)
in reprisal because some Chinese had helped American airmen from the Doolittle Raid return safely to the USA.
When Americans write about the Doolittle Raid, some mention this war crime against the Chinese, but others do not,
dwelling exclusively upon the experiences of the American airmen.

About 50 or 60 years after the Doolittle Raid, the USAF invited a few elderly Chinese who had helped the Doolittle Raid
airmen to be its guests of honor at a reception in the USA. Some Doolittle Raid veterans attended the event, and there
was an emotional reunion between some Americans and a Chinese woman who had helped save their lives so long ago.
In gratitude, the Americans offered to buy anything that she wished in order to take home to her family.

 

[gelgoog]

Say, is topwar.ru any good?

Meh. Questionable. I mean it beats the Ukrainian Army Twitter feed but that is not saying much.
It seems to aggregate news from several sources and it can vary from quite reasonable to total bunk depending on that.

 

[Tam]

I think so. The Su-30 and Su-34 are definitely new. A video of one Mi-24/35 shot down by MANPADS was published today. Another destroyed Mi-24/35 was photographed and that looks unique as well. At least one of the Su-25 looked new to me. I haven't studied the others yet.

The RuAF is clearly intensifying its operational tempo, but are they running low on smart munitions and forced to fly low? One of the aircraft shot down near Chernihiv carried unguided FAB-500 bombs.

How were the Su-30 and Su-34 shot down? If it was MANPADS, that's really embarrassing.

I am guessing, but its quite likely, the good old Buk.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Sources within the Ukrainian MoD said that it was an S300PS system that brought down the Su30-SM today.

First kill against manned fighter by S-300?

 

[Abominable]

Sources within the Ukrainian MoD said that it was an S300PS system that brought down the Su30-SM today.

That makes the most sense, but it's weird that they would announce it.

 

[meckhardt98]

First kill against manned fighter by S-300?

I believe so, only other ever confirmed aircraft downing was by Armenian S300-PS systems intercepting several Azeri drones near Yerevan.

 

[tphuang]

I was giving you the benefit of a doubt that you weren't actually that ignorant. Read through this thread. Posts of people promoting nuclear retaliation for trivial stuff, suggesting shooting down NATO aircraft over NATO territory, practically foaming at the mouth demanding more Chinese nukes to stave off the Great Satan. There's stupidity enough to go around. It's a trivial, juvenile group of individuals, and they hail from all corners of the globe, but the vast majority of people would rather have peace. In the words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"

Nope, people love talking about nukes, war and which countries they hate. That's why I have reverted back to air force and naval thread. It's a shame, I actually get some different takes here than what I normally see on my Twitter feed.