Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

[Gatekeeper]

iq2 debates: Taiwan is indefensible

How much of it did you watch?

I watched the opening statements, and by then I decided to stop and I thought someone would supply a summary, like you are wondering, lol.

This was the panel. Two political science professors aka ivory tower mouth pieces, one former US military assistant director or something, and then there was professor Lyle Goldstein the military analyst.

After their opening statements, it was seemed this was not going to be a military discussion, it will be a political discussion. That former US defence official was making some weird political argument, without pointing to any equipment in his opening statement. Guess he did not want to talk about that.

After the opening statements, I assumed that all they will talk about is American rationale, and nothing about military equipment, and 3 of 4 of the panel probably not militarily sophisticated enough to discuss strategies during and after the war.

Professor Goldstein seems like a nice man, honest, and he would have gone there, but did not seem like the others had the courage.

So there were no "experts" to argue for the Chinese mainland side? This isn't a debate. I mean if you're simply going to argue amongst yourselves on how to approach a potential war with your so called adversary without even trying to attempt your enemies rationale, National will, and importance of Taiwan is to China compared to the talking Anglos, then how are one supposed to glean valuable insights and realization that Taiwan isn't going to be some abstract topic or philosophical debate for China. It's a matter of life and death to her period.

Is the west and it's human rights citizens - liberals and social justice monkeys - prepare to mobilize it's largely military averse people? Because China ain't the middle east and they're not going to be fighting a nation less state. Are they prepared to take thousands upon thousands of casualties? The potential damage to human capital, financial capital, and economic devastation for the whole world, are they prepare to soldier this burden or is the debate is being presented in a sanitized way that's borderline fiction of the savagery of what's to come if war with China over Taiwan takes place.

Exactly like what you are saying. I thought it was a weird debate. Stopped watching at the 15 minute mark, lol.

This debate was suppose to be about the United States and China, but China had almost no voice. And if Goldstein said something about China, those points totally ignored. Seems like the usual tactics. Boring!

This is debate on US debate on US policy -- why should China have a voice?

In essence the 'against' side has a cognitive dissonance. They simply take superiority of US military as an act of faith, hence only considers what happens if US does not intervene. They fails to consider the consequences of intervention, even when they wins. The consequences are not merely military losses, but what happens afterwards. Another thing they ignored is that if China chooses to initiate action, they must have reasonable probability of success -- hence ignoring this side of the decision tree is highly logically suspect.

In any case this is still in the voting phase. I suspect the 'against' side will carry the motion due to anti-China public sentiment is too strong at the moment and the fact that the world is longer longer unipolar hasn't sink in yet to the US public.

I think you guys are missing the point. This is how the west propaganda works. This "debate" like countless others before it, it's supposed to show to it's populace that their democracy works, that other voices are heard.

But often they are not. Unless it's a domestic issue, you will never hear an opposing voice. For instant, In the U.K. we got a programme called question time. And when ever it is domestic issues, you get their opposing politician arguing with passion their opposing views. But anything on tge international front, and the often joined together at the hips. Indeed at times, they will try and outscored each other by being tougher on those big bad foreigners.

If I may, it’s pointless to go bashing US or China, as animosity is not only bad for relationship but only make it worse. It’s not who is right ot who is wrong. Of course the Chinese & the Americans have their own views. What we should look at are the areas the 2 Major Powers can cooperate.....I believe there is already agreement on dealing with worsening global “Climate”. Areas we hope could be settled are Trade, Investments, Technology (AI etc,), aimed at MUTUAL and realistic benefits, Better to have tough negotiations wits outcomes realistic. They could be done IF either party stops being domineering or arrogant. “Jaw Jaw (negotiate) NOT War War (Trade or Security” are preferable by China & US. “If I am virtuous and worthy, for whom should I not maintain a proper concern” Confucius (551-479 B.C.). May I wish all celebrating Vesak Day a joyous & peaceful occasion.

LOL, have you been living under a rock for the last year?

Yes, Ex-President Trump was the culprit. Now there is a new US Biden Administration, wait & see what US moves will be. To this end there are 2 quotes: “Patience is the mother of Virtue” (English saying)). “A person can only criticise others if they themselves make no mistakes. If they are not tolerant and just, they cannot ask others to be tolerant and forgiving” (Old Chinese Saying).

@advill

Like @solarz said. Where have you been? Do you really think all these China bashing from the U.S. started with Trump?

I take it you are not ethnic Chinese. Most of my non-chinese cohorts thinks like you do.

Edit

@emblem21

"Well only if they are completely mad that is, in that no treatment can hope to work, like America and its government is progressively becoming. Sorry if I said that one wrong"

Lol. @emblem21 the first sign of madness is when you start to answer you own post! Lol

 

[emblem21]

I think you guys are missing the point. This is how the west propaganda works. This "debate" like countless others before it, it's supposed to show to it's populace that their democracy works, that other voices are heard.

But often they are not. Unless it's a domestic issue, you will never hear an opposing voice. For instant, In the U.K. we got a programme called question time. And when ever it is domestic issues, you get their opposing politician arguing with passion their opposing views. But anything on tge international front, and the often joined together at the hips. Indeed at times, they will try and outscored each other by being tougher on those big bad foreigners.






@advill

Like @solarz said. Where have you been? Do you really think all these China bashing from the U.S. started with Trump?

I take it you are not ethnic Chinese. Most of my non-chinese cohorts thinks like you do.

Edit

@emblem21

"Well only if they are completely mad that is, in that no treatment can hope to work, like America and its government is progressively becoming. Sorry if I said that one wrong"

Lol. @emblem21 the first sign of madness is when you start to answer you own post! Lol

Yeah sorry I was getting a little bit up the wall from all the crazy stuff ups happening at work today along with what is happen right now. I assure you that I don’t normally do this and I am trying to calm down. Sorry for going off topic again

 

[Gatekeeper]

Yeah sorry I was getting a little bit up the wall from all the crazy stuff ups happening at work today along with what is happen right now. I assure you that I don’t normally do this and I am trying to calm down. Sorry for going off topic again

No it's fine. I was just teasing . We are good.

 

[siegecrossbow]

LOL, have you been living under a rock for the last year?

I think you meant last three years.

 

[Equation]

Yes, Ex-President Trump was the culprit. Now there is a new US Biden Administration, wait & see what US moves will be. To this end there are 2 quotes: “Patience is the mother of Virtue” (English saying)). “A person can only criticise others if they themselves make no mistakes. If they are not tolerant and just, they cannot ask others to be tolerant and forgiving” (Old Chinese Saying).

Americans has no virtue at all when they are benefitting from slavery through land theft of Native Americans for a century and expected the world to evolve around them? China doesn't has to abide by the West at all. It's the West that has the problem with China rising.

 

[horse]

I think you guys are missing the point. This is how the west propaganda works. This "debate" like countless others before it, it's supposed to show to it's populace that their democracy works, that other voices are heard.

Point taken, on missing the point.

In my view, sooner or later, the discussion must come back to reality and be attached to reality. Otherwise this is just one gigantic grand illusion.

It is all Lewis Carroll.

It is not a philosophical discussion, these issues are all based on technology, economics, and politics.

If there is no practical advice being given, very difficult for any outside party to view it seriously.

 

[LST]

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I think this has the potential to escalate the conflicts between China and US to a level not seen before in US-China relation.

 

[Aniah]

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I think this has the potential to escalate the conflicts between China and US to a level not seen before in US-China relation.

We already at that level. Any more is meaningless as the bridge has already been burned. Just another day the Americans are barking and will do nothing.

 

[siegecrossbow]

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I think this has the potential to escalate the conflicts between China and US to a level not seen before in US-China relation.

Biden is trying to do everything to get a concession from China so he’ll be in an advantageous position politically to roll back many of Trump’s policies that actually hurt the US (I’m talking about blanket tariffs, not Huawei ban). However, I don’t think China will acquiesce. It’ll be interesting to observe how the situation moves forward.

 

[azuazu]

Biden is trying to do everything to get a concession from China so he’ll be in an advantageous position politically to roll back many of Trump’s policies that actually hurt the US (I’m talking about blanket tariffs, not Huawei ban). However, I don’t think China will acquiesce. It’ll be interesting to observe how the situation moves forward.

Maybe China will finally give in and expand their nuclear stockpile so they can join the next round of START treaty talks.

That'll be considered a win, right?