Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[taxiya]

Maybe next time they should hire westerners for their marketing lol

And you think westerners will be any fairer or kinder to anything from China than the Brazilians? We know Bolsonaro's attitude to China is openly hostile, but we also know that most western countries are equally hostile except their leaders refrained from showing it.

I think next time, China should try more countries like Turkey, UAE etc. Countries that are competent in the area, but certainly not political western. Maybe Hungary, Serbia or even Greece. P.S. I don't see them as western from a political sense.

 

[voyager1]

And you think westerners will be any fairer or kinder to anything from China than the Brazilians? We know Bolsonaro's attitude to China is openly hostile, but we also know that most western countries are hostile except some of them are more well hidden.

From what I have heard the Brazil institute which conducted the trials is highly regarded internationally and they repeatedly defended the Sinovac vaccine from that clown president they have over there.

I am not going too hard on the Sinovac vaccine, I mean they did the vaccine and it actually works really good and it will save countless lives.

What I am criticising is their testing methodology and public relations which made them lose face and subsequently dealt reputational damage to the Chinese Vaccines.

And yes I know that's western media propaganda but then China is now in extreme strategic competition with the US and such careless mistakes shouldn't happen at this stage.

my 2 cents.

 

[taxiya]

From what I have heard the Brazil institute which conducted the trials is highly regarded internationally and they repeatedly defended the Sinovac vaccine from that clown president they have over there.

I am not going too hard on the Sinovac vaccine, I mean they did the vaccine and it actually works really good and it will save countless lives.

What I am criticising is their testing methodology and public relations which made them lose face and subsequently dealt reputational damage to the Chinese Vaccines.

And yes I know that's western media propaganda but then China is now in extreme strategic competition with the US and such careless mistakes shouldn't happen at this stage.

my 2 cents.

I see your point. However, isn't the Brazilians setting up the test protocol and procedure? I thought Sinovac is not supposed or allowed to that decision. If there is a blame to be placed, I think it should be more on the Brazilian institute than on Sinovac. I also wonder why had the Brazilian institute done what they have done if they later on strongly defended the vaccine since they know their method would be "unfair" for the vaccine in the public eyes.

 

[voyager1]

I see your point. However, isn't the Brazilians setting up the test protocol and procedure? I thought Sinovac is not supposed or allowed to that decision. If there is a blame to be placed, I think it should be more on the Brazilian institute than on Sinovac. I also wonder why had the Brazilian institute done what they have done if they later on strongly defended the vaccine since they know their method would be "unfair" for the vaccine in the public eyes.

Well if they did decide on the test methodology themselves then they might have not even considered the public relation aspect. It is not strange, they are a purely academic organisation so they likely went straight for medical professional testing as that would be the "best" testing and it would give the most accurate data on repeated exposure to covid.
And as a result I suppose they didn't think of the deeper consequences of that decision.


Well after this conversation I dont think i can criticise them, it seems to be lack of experience than incompetence or malice .Lets hope its going to be a learning experience for the institute and Sinovac so next time they can be more involved in these decisions.

 

[KYli]

I see your point. However, isn't the Brazilians setting up the test protocol and procedure? I thought Sinovac is not supposed or allowed to that decision. If there is a blame to be placed, I think it should be more on the Brazilian institute than on Sinovac. I also wonder why had the Brazilian institute done what they have done if they later on strongly defended the vaccine since they know their method would be "unfair" for the vaccine in the public eyes.

Sinovac could design the protocol, criteria, and procedure if it wanted to. However, Sinovac decided to let Butantan institute to design the protocol to earn trust. However, Bolsonaro replaced his health ministry and the people in charge of anvisa and told the Blutantan to publish the lowest number as the trial results.

One of the mistakes is to allow Butantan institute to test everyone including asymptomatic cases which is abnormal. Initially, Butantan published the efficacy rate without including the asymptomatic cases but Bolsonaro and his people in anvisa forced Butantan to include asymptomatic cases and every Western media since then have used the 50.4% efficacy rate to mislead the readers.

Quote from the media "Normally, that is based on people developing obvious symptoms but in this Brazilian trial, people with no symptoms also appear to have been included." It is not only lack of experience but also foolish as some Western vaccines only include people with two symptoms for calculation.

 

[Dolcevita]

Sinovac could design the protocol, criteria, and procedure if it wanted to. However, Sinovac decided to let Butantan institute to design the protocol to earn trust. However, Bolsonaro replaced his health ministry and the people in charge of anvisa and told the Blutantan to publish the lowest number as the trial results.

One of the mistakes is to allow Butantan institute to test everyone including asymptomatic cases which is abnormal. Initially, Butantan published the efficacy rate without including the asymptomatic cases but Bolsonaro and his people in anvisa forced Butantan to include asymptomatic cases and every Western media since then have used the 50.4% efficacy rate to mislead the readers.

Quote from the media "Normally, that is based on people developing obvious symptoms but in this Brazilian trial, people with no symptoms also appear to have been included." It is not only lack of experience but also foolish as some Western vaccines only include people with two symptoms for calculation.

In addtion, Butantan institute's trial result was distorted because they were mainly focused on front-line health workers including elderly volunteers.

Butantan officials said the design of the Brazilian study, focusing on front-line health workers during a severe outbreak in Brazil which included elderly volunteers, made it impossible to compare the results directly with other trials or vaccines.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[AssassinsMace]

AstraZeneca has been trying to get "emergency use authorization" of their vaccine for use in the US. Why not? The British have okayed it so why doesn't the US? This just shows how political it is. Is it because of report of people dying from blood clotting? Is the US doing it's due diligence because of those reports. Are the British that careless trying to push their vaccine while these suspicions exists? Are they just in it for the money? So just imagine how a Chinese vaccine would get treated? The US or the British can sit on it doing nothing out of politics and there will an automatic assumption that it's bad medicine. So when they complain about transparency and not enough data, that's what will be automatically assumed without them doing anything. They play these games with each other so certainly they ain't going to take anyone else seriously.

 

[voyager1]

AstraZeneca has been trying to get "emergency use authorization" of their vaccine for use in the US. Why not? The British have okayed it so why doesn't the US? This just shows how political it is. Is it because of report of people dying from blood clotting? Is the US doing it's due diligence because of those reports. Are the British that careless trying to push their vaccine while these suspicions exists? Are they just in it for the money? So just imagine how a Chinese vaccine would get treated? The US or the British can sit on it doing nothing out of politics and there will an automatic assumption that it's bad medicine. So when they complain about transparency and not enough data, that's what will be automatically assumed without them doing anything. They play these games with each other so certainly they ain't going to take anyone else seriously.

I don't think it is political

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

AstraZeneca after global trials that included some mistaken dosing—has not filed an application in the U.S., saying it first needs to finish its phase 3 U.S. trial. Simply put: AstraZeneca hasn’t applied for the U.S. job.

The company knows that the FDA doesn’t merely accept results from trials in other countries. And its confusing trial results pooled from differently designed clinical trials in Brazil and the U.K. raised questions about dosing as well as how well it works for people 65 and older.

No conspiracies here. The FDA doesn't accept other counties' phase 3 trials, and even if they did trust them, AstraZeneca's trials were a mess because of different test methodologies.

The FDA probably doesn't want to risk anything, even moreso with the scare stories coming from Europe, while they have plenty of other vaccines. Now if they were short of vaccine maybe they would just accept it but for now better safe than sorry.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I don't think it is political

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

No conspiracies here. The FDA doesn't accept other counties' phase 3 trials, and even if they did trust them, AstraZeneca's trials were a mess because of different test methodologies.

The FDA probably doesn't want to risk anything, even moreso with the scare stories coming from Europe, while they have plenty of other vaccines. Now if they were short of vaccine maybe they would just accept it but for now better safe than sorry.

I saw on the news AstraZeneca doesn't understand what's the hold-up by the FDA granting emergency use authorization in the US meaning to them enough time has passed. Is it because of suspicions or is it because of money?

 

[KYli]

I don't think it is political

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

No conspiracies here. The FDA doesn't accept other counties' phase 3 trials, and even if they did trust them, AstraZeneca's trials were a mess because of different test methodologies.

The FDA probably doesn't want to risk anything, even moreso with the scare stories coming from Europe, while they have plenty of other vaccines. Now if they were short of vaccine maybe they would just accept it but for now better safe than sorry.

It isn't that simple. AstraZeneca phase 3 trial(the largest trial) in the US was halted for over 6 weeks. Fair or not fair, the decision to pause AstraZeneca for over 6 weeks doomed AstraZeneca chance of getting approval. Most other countries only took 3-4 weeks to clear AstraZeneca.