Trade War with China

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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm afraid it is not the Trump Administration's concern who pays for the tariffs. It is about a strategic decoupling from the Chinese economy. However, as y'all understand, the day when merchants cease to cross the borders, armies will.

The strategy is not about decoupling from the Chinese economy. Its about hurting the Chinese economy to stop it from catching up with the US economy as discussed earlier.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
I understand and appreciate your criticism, but could tell me how do you motivate and incentivize individuals to innovate and perform the best without fierce market competition, while being provided with subsidies (some kind of free lunch)? How do you motivate people to strive for the best in a non-market, semi state-controlled setting?

First, you must know, theres no such thing as unfetted "free market".
As soon as you introduce law and rules and emforcements, free market as per the classical sense ceases to exist.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Every industrialized nations industrialized by protecting its own industries from foreign competition, without exception. So China has to do the same, including subsiding its key industries, encouraging domestic and limited international competitions, and more stringent capital control if necessary.

Absolutely spot on! All this talk about protection and subsidies always focus on othet countries by the western MSM.
But they somehow forget to tell their readers how much subsidies they have provided to their industries, like argicuture, aerospace. Motor industries. Etc
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
All you need to know is it's been almost a year since Trump's trade war started. China was supposed to collapse day one because the US needs no one and everyone else needs the US. Peter Navarro told Trump that no one would dare retaliate against tariffs imposed by the US. All the people who repeated this nonsense have already moved the goal posts denying they ever believed these things. What happened to the spin why the trade deficit shot up during Trump's trade was US corporations were stocking up and China would collapse instead after the beginning of the year?

Yeah, what was Trumps catch phrase again...... oh yeah! Trade wars are EASY to win! Lol
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes consumer pay it. However it also means US purchased less from China and some company move their factories from China to elsewhere. There is no winner in trade war but US is major China export

Yes, maybe, but dependent on substitution effect. If subsitution can't be found, then US still purchase from China (abit in smaller amount).
BUT whatever, China doesn't pay a bean towards any tariffs collected by the US tax authroities!
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
If you think the US needs no one but everyone needs the US... yeah you're gonna to believe tariffs are going to hurt China. The lie of the US is charging all of the exports from China to the US are Chinese companies selling their products to Americans. Name a Chinese brand name in the US? There are very few. Meaning real Chinese companies that make their own products and profit when sold to consumers don't do a lot of business in the US. Over 60% of exports from China are foreign corporations having THEIR products being made in China because they're exploiting slave labor so they can make as much money selling THEIR products to consumers. So which one is going to hurt more? China losing the $10 it only gets making an iPhone for Apple or Apple that has to pay $250 just to get THEIR own products back home to sell to consumers? More propaganda says outsourcing jobs in China are the best jobs. If they were the best, you wouldn't hear how rising labor costs in China are making outsourcers think twice about manufacturing in China. Labor costs are rising because foreign outsourcers have to compete and attract workers to make THEIR products with domestic jobs that pay more. All the stories you hear of workers committing suicide are making products for foreigners. Can't spin to say those outsourcing jobs are preferred regardless it's essentially slave labor as charged.

Trump has been mostly avoiding slapping tariffs on US corporations outsourcing to China. Do you see China collapsing? Now he's increasing tariffs on existing ones not the next round he promised at the beginning of the year that would strike at the heart of US corporations that outsource to China. Don't think like what Americans wants the world to believe that US corporations outsource jobs as some sort of altruistic humanitarian gesture. No, it's where US corporations can make the most they can. Leave China and everything will cost them more. They're in China because is where they can get the most bang for their buck. It not just who has the cheaper labor. Most countries that think they're a better alternative than China for outsourcers don't have the infrastructure. They expect these outsourcers to pay and build it for them. China had the smarts to build these things that attracted foreign corporations. Why? That lessened their costs hence how China became the factory for the world. And let's not forget how China also buys the raw materials from around the world so those products can be made for foreign corporations. All these others countries think rich Westerners are going to do all that for them. Then don't forget how the Western world is saturated. That's why Western corporations need foreign markets aka China more than ever to make more money.

US corporations will be facing more costs and losing market share.
 

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
Maybe this is the reason why there are so many zombie SOEs in China?

In any one country you have good companies and bad companies, I don’t see China being different in that regard. Ofc failed companies outnumber successful ones, or everyone would just start their own company (if it is so easy to succeed)
 

SpicySichuan

Senior Member
Registered Member
A balance has to be strike between efficiency and common good . It is true that SOE has not been very efficient But it it preserve employment and strategic asset of the country eg the whole defense industry in China are SOE
Thanks for clarifying, but in this case, what are the incentives and motivations to develop a weapon platform as good as those developed by Boeing or Lockheed Martin? I am asking because products like the F-35 and F-22 are results of market-driven cut-throat competitions between defense industries. For example, when Boeing's X-32 lost to Lockheed's X-35, some engineer at Boeing risked losing their jobs for the loss. CEOs had to deal with losing everything the company put into developing the X-32. I am wondering if the same threat of potentially losing one's job for not coming up with the best design is a source of motivation behind those who designed the J-20 and other cutting edge Chinese weapon platforms. Or are there other potentially more creative non-market incentives within the PRC's military-industrial complex to ensure that engineers and other employees strive for the best?
 
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