Crisis in the Ukraine

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
This is very shocking that UN allowed the crash investigation to be halted because US and allies refused to pass a resolution calling all involved parties to observe tge truce. US demanded the resolution name the separatists as responsible party, leaving out Kiev.

Please Spare the Fained indignation. The UN general Assembly has limited powers in cases where the Security council is involved and Right now The Council is in up to it's eye balls.
With Russia Directly involved and NATO the EU and US indirectly.
As to The US blocking this or that and it not being right, Grow up Russia can and has done the same. Putin's "Plea" Greatly favors the breakaway states as they wish to be Russian Clients. If the US let it pass Kiev would be ousted in a week.

The "Cannon holes" is still conjecture until the evidence can be recovered.
Accessing the sight is to be frank not a priority for Kiev. There national Sovereignty and existence is on the lines and with the political shakeups of a deposed president, a resigned president and Obelisks in rebellion. I think they have in there view bigger fish to fry. lets be brutally honest here it's bad politics for them and great propaganda for Putin.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Images and accounts are coming in from the collapsed cauldron area.

I am posting a selection of them here

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Dannhill

Junior Member
So convicted by social media evidence? Good judgement call. No need to even attempt to be objective and open.

Btw, "Please Spare the Fained indignition" is a personal attack. You have provided no links to support your comment.
I believe there are code of conduct guidelines in this forum.

Please Spare the Fained indignation. The UN general Assembly has limited powers in cases where the Security council is involved and Right now The Council is in up to it's eye balls.
With Russia Directly involved and NATO the EU and US indirectly.
As to The US blocking this or that and it not being right, Grow up Russia can and has done the same. Putin's "Plea" Greatly favors the breakaway states as they wish to be Russian Clients. If the US let it pass Kiev would be ousted in a week.

The "Cannon holes" is still conjecture until the evidence can be recovered.
Accessing the sight is to be frank not a priority for Kiev. There national Sovereignty and existence is on the lines and with the political shakeups of a deposed president, a resigned president and Obelisks in rebellion. I think they have in there view bigger fish to fry. lets be brutally honest here it's bad politics for them and great propaganda for Putin.
 

Dannhill

Junior Member
And, I am a Singaporean and MH17 belongs to the country just next door. My mother was a Malaysian so you can say I feel a lot for the victims of the crash. And the outcome of the investigation is of paramount importance to me, to Malaysians. More so than how Ukraine might feel to having foreigners trampling over the countryside while they are busy shooting some Dad's Army folks which is what I can see from photos of these separatists. I don't think it is unreasonable to ceasefire and let the site be investigated and cleared. Plenty of time for Ukraine and the separatists to go back to killing each other later.

Would you say the same if it was a US passenger jet that was brought down? I doubt UN would happily pack their bags and leave for the time being. "Brutally" honest here.
 

Dannhill

Junior Member
More info that the investigators stated that they think they have collected all the body remains and also personal belongings of the victims.

I am sure this sentence doesn't refer to the Ukrainian govt. I could be wrong of course.

"The search of the site by local authorities prior to their arrival was also much more thorough than first thought, with 1000 people trawling the area, he said."


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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
UN Veto powers
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The source of the "Bullet holes" report Was this
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Based on Photographs not a Physical examination!

Time line of the Ukrainian situation
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Kiev's stability
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Moves to dismantle 'Euromaidan' protest tents in Kiev spark clashes

Thu, Aug 7 2014
KIEV (Reuters) - Tensions flared on Thursday on Kiev's Independence Square, the scene of street protests that toppled a Moscow-backed president in February, when protesters still camped there clashed with city workers who tried to clear away their tents.
The protesters set fire to heaps of tyres, sending clouds of black smoke billowing across the city centre square, known as the Maidan, recalling the demonstrations earlier this year which chased Viktor Yanukovich from power.
Armed riot police moved onto the square as protesters - some of them in combat fatigues and masks and waving clubs - threw bottles and paving bricks at municipal workers who had been dispatched to dismantle the tents and barricades.
The police and workers eventually withdrew, leaving the situation unresolved.
Many protesters, including self-defence militias, have taken down their tents and returned to their homes since the election of Petro Poroshenko as president at the end of May.
But many barricades have remained in place, along with makeshift shrines to the 100 or so protesters killed by police sniper fire, and a few hundred people are still camped out on the Maidan.
"It's the right thing to do (take down the tents). I was here from the start of the Maidan and I believe it's right now to take down what there is here. There are practically no normal people left here," said Yury Kovalchuk, a 43-year-old businessman.
Ukraine's uprising began last November when Yanukovich walked away from a political and trade deal with the European Union and sought to swing policy back towards Russia. At its height, thousands of people from across Ukraine were camped out on the square and on an adjoining thoroughfare.
Kiev's new authorities have made clear they would like the capital city back to normal, with traffic moving freely, ahead of an expected parliamentary election at the end of October.
"It's like seeing everything that went on in winter coming back: tyres are burning, the police are here and so are people with clubs," said Vitaly Lyakh, a 37-year-old Kiev resident.
"It's not right - especially since the most decent people have gone off to fight in the war (against separatists in the east). Civilised countries don't behave like this," he said.
One protester wearing a Ukrainian cossack uniform, Mykola Bondar, declared his resistance to attempts to take down the encampment. A group of young masked protesters stood nearby atop a truck, banging on the roof of the vehicle with clubs.
"They tried to kill us today. They set fire to us," he said.
(Reporting by Natalia Zinets and Pavel Polityuk; Writing by Richard Balmforth; Editing by Sonya Hepinstall
)
 

delft

Brigadier
Let's put thiis in the Ukraine thread although its ramifications are much wider, The the blog of The Saker:
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Thursday, August 7, 2014
You wanna be Uncle Sam's bitch? Pay the price!

Dear friends,

I just took a short break from my life in "meatspace" to comment upon the great news of the day: Russia is introducing a full 12 months embargo on the import of beef, pork, fruits and vegetables, poultry, fish, cheese, milk and dairy products from the European Union, the United States, Australia, Canada and the Kingdom of Norway. Russia is also introducing an airspace ban against European and US airlines that fly over our airspace to Eastern Asia, namely, the Asia-Pacific Region and is considering changing the so-called Russian airspace entry and exit points for European scheduled and charter flights. Furthermore, Russia is ready to revise the rules of using the trans-Siberian routes, and will also discontinue talks with the US air authorities on the use of the trans-Siberian routes. Finally, starting this winter, we may revoke the additional rights issued by the Russian air authorities beyond the previous agreements. This is such an interesting and major development that it requires a much more subtle analysis than just the crude calculation of how much this might cost the EU or US. I will attempt no such calculation, but instead I would point out the following elements:

First, this is a typically Russian response. There is a basic rule which every Russian kid learns in school, in street fights, in the military or elsewhere: never promise and never threaten - just act. Unlike western politicians who spent months threatening sanctions, the all the Russians did was to say, rather vaguely, that they reserve the right to reply. And then, BANG!, this wide and far-reaching embargo which, unlike the western sanctions, will have a major impact on the West, but even much more so on Russia (more about that in an instant). This "no words & only action" tactic is designed to maximize deterrence of hostile acts: since the Russians do not clearly spell out what they could do in retaliation, God only knows what they could do next! :) On top of that, to maximize insecurity, the Russians only said that these were the measures agreed upon, but not when they would be introduced, partially or fully, and against whom. They also strongly implied that other measure were under consideration in the pipeline.

Second, the sanctions are wonderfully targeted. The Europeans have acted like spineless and brainless prostitutes in this entire business, they were opposed to sanctions from day 1, but they did not have the courage to tell that to Uncle Sam, so each time they ended up caving in. Russia's message to the EU is simple: you wanna be Uncle Sam's bitch? Pay the price! This embargo will especially hurt southern Europe (Spain, France, Italy, Greece) whose agricultural production will greatly suffer from it These countries also happen to be the weakest in the EU. By hitting them, Russia is maximizing the inevitable friction inside the EU over sanctions against Russia.


Friday, August 8, 2014
The wave pain for the EU is now slowly turning into a tsunami of mutually reinforcing problems
This is great stuff! RT reports:

Ukraine ready to impose sanctions against any transit via its territory, including air flights and gas supplies to Europe, Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Friday. Ukraine's Parliament will vote on the sanctions on Tuesday. Kiev has also prepared a list of 172 Russian citizens and 65 legal enitites to put under sanctions for “sponsoring terrorism, supporting the annexation of Crimea, and violating the territorial integrity of Ukraine,” Yatsenyuk said at a briefing on Friday. Proposed sanctions include asset freezes, bans on certain enterprises, bans on privatizing state property, refusing to issue licenses, and a complete or partial ban on transit- both aviation and gas.

Let me see if I got this right: the US/EU impose sanctions on Russia because Russia does not stop the Novorussian Resistance. In retaliation, Russia imposes sanctions on the EU and a ban on Ukie overflights over Russia. And in response to that, the Ukies prevent gas which the EU badly needs and which it paid for from reaching the EU. Who will get hurt by that? The EU, of course. So, in fact, these idiots in Kiev, no doubt under US orders again, are now strengthening the Russian sanctions against the EU! We can think of it as "Russia cutting off gas supplies to the EU in a way for which it cannot be blamed".

Beautiful, no?

The wave pain for the EU is now slowly turning into a tsunami of mutually reinforcing problems.

Well, the sure deserve it. As I said yesterday: you wanna be Uncle Sam's bitch? Pay the price!

The Saker
Posted by VINEYARDSAKER: at 12:45 64 comments:
Labels: economic warfare, Ukrainian national suicide
Thursday, August 7, 2014
You wanna be Uncle Sam's bitch? Pay the price!
Dear friends,

I just took a short break from my life in "meatspace" to comment upon the great news of the day: Russia is introducing a full 12 months embargo on the import of beef, pork, fruits and vegetables, poultry, fish, cheese, milk and dairy products from the European Union, the United States, Australia, Canada and the Kingdom of Norway. Russia is also introducing an airspace ban against European and US airlines that fly over our airspace to Eastern Asia, namely, the Asia-Pacific Region and is considering changing the so-called Russian airspace entry and exit points for European scheduled and charter flights. Furthermore, Russia is ready to revise the rules of using the trans-Siberian routes, and will also discontinue talks with the US air authorities on the use of the trans-Siberian routes. Finally, starting this winter, we may revoke the additional rights issued by the Russian air authorities beyond the previous agreements. This is such an interesting and major development that it requires a much more subtle analysis than just the crude calculation of how much this might cost the EU or US. I will attempt no such calculation, but instead I would point out the following elements:

First, this is a typically Russian response. There is a basic rule which every Russian kid learns in school, in street fights, in the military or elsewhere: never promise and never threaten - just act. Unlike western politicians who spent months threatening sanctions, the all the Russians did was to say, rather vaguely, that they reserve the right to reply. And then, BANG!, this wide and far-reaching embargo which, unlike the western sanctions, will have a major impact on the West, but even much more so on Russia (more about that in an instant). This "no words & only action" tactic is designed to maximize deterrence of hostile acts: since the Russians do not clearly spell out what they could do in retaliation, God only knows what they could do next! :) On top of that, to maximize insecurity, the Russians only said that these were the measures agreed upon, but not when they would be introduced, partially or fully, and against whom. They also strongly implied that other measure were under consideration in the pipeline.

Second, the sanctions are wonderfully targeted. The Europeans have acted like spineless and brainless prostitutes in this entire business, they were opposed to sanctions from day 1, but they did not have the courage to tell that to Uncle Sam, so each time they ended up caving in. Russia's message to the EU is simple: you wanna be Uncle Sam's bitch? Pay the price! This embargo will especially hurt southern Europe (Spain, France, Italy, Greece) whose agricultural production will greatly suffer from it These countries also happen to be the weakest in the EU. By hitting them, Russia is maximizing the inevitable friction inside the EU over sanctions against Russia.

Third, not only will EU carriers suffer from much higher costs and flight times on the very important Europe to Asia route, but the Asian carriers will not, giving the latter a double competitive advantage. How is that for a way to reward one side while hurting the other? The EU got one Russian airline in trouble over its flights to Crimea (Dobrolet) and for that the entire EU airlines community could end being at a huge disadvantage vis-à-vis its Asian counterparts.

Fourth, Russia used these sanctions to do something vital for the Russian economy. Let me explain: after the collapse of the USSR the Russian agriculture was in disarray, and the Eltsin only made things worse. Russian farmers simply could not compete against advanced western agro-industrial concerns which benefited from huge economies of scale, from expensive and high-tech chemical and biological research, which had a full chain of production (often through large holdings), and a top quality marketing capability. The Russian agricultural sector badly, desperately, needed barriers and tariffs to be protected form the western capitalist giants and, instead, Russia voluntarily abided by the terms of the WTO and then eventually became member. Now Russia is using this total embargo to provide a crucially needed time for the Russian agriculture to invest and take up a much bigger share on the Russian market. Also, keep in mind that Russian products are GMO-free, and that they have much less preservatives, antibiotics, colors, taste enhancers, or pesticides. And since they are local, they don't need to be brought in by using the kind of refrigeration/preservation techniques which typically make products taste like cardboard. In other words, Russian agricultural products taste much better, but that is not enough to complete. This embargo now gives them a powerful boost to invest, develop and conquer market shares.

Fifth, there are 100 countries which did not vote with the US on Crimea. The Russians have already announced that these are the countries with which Russia will trade to get whatever products it cannot produce indigenously. A nice reward for standing up to Uncle Sam.

Sixth, small but sweet: did you notice that EU sanctions were introduced for 3 months only, "to be reviewed" later? By introducing a 12 months embargo Russia also sends a clear message: who do you think will benefit from this mess?

Seventh, it is plain wrong to calculate that EU country X was exporting for Y million dollars to Russia and to then conclude that the Russian embargo will cost Y million dollars to EU country X. Why is it wrong? Because the non-sale of these product with create a surplus which will then adversely affect the demand or, if the production is decreased, this will affect production costs (economies of scale). Conversely, for a hypothetical non-EU country Z a contract with Russia might mean enough cash to invest, modernize and become more competitive, not only in Russia, but on the world market, including the EU.

Eighth, the Baltic countries have played a particularly nasty role in the entire Ukrainian business and now some of their most profitable industries (such as fisheries), which were 90% dependent on Russia, will have to shut down. These countries are already a mess, but now they will hurt even more. Again, the message to them is simple: you wanna be Uncle Sam's bitch? Pay the price!


Ninth, and this is really important, what is happening is a gradual decoupling of Russia from the western economies. The West severed some of the financial, military and aerospace ties, Russia severed the monetary, agricultural and industrial ones. Keep in mind that the US/EU market is a sinking one, affected by deep systemic problems and huge social issues. In a way, the perfect comparison is the Titanic whose orchestra continued to play music while the sink was sinking. Well, Russia is like a passenger who is told that the Titanic's authorities have decided to disembark him at the next port. Well, gee, too bad, right?

Last, but most definitely not least, this trade-war, combined with the West's hysterical russophobia, is doing for Putin a better PR campaign than anything the Kremlin could have dreamed of. All his PR people need to tell the Russian population is the truth: "we did everything right, we played it exactly by the book, we did everything we could to deescalate this crisis and all we asked for was to please not allow the genocide of our people in Novorussia - and what was the West's response to that? An insane hate campaign, sanctions against us and unconditional support for thegenocidal Nazis in Kiev". Furthermore, as somebody who carefully follows the Russian media, I can tell you that what is taking place today feels a lot like, paraphrasing Clausewitz, the "a continuation of WWII, but by other means", in other words a struggle to the end between two regimes, two civilizations, which cannot coexist on the same planet and who are locked in struggle to death. In these circumstances, expect the Russian people to support Putin even more.

In other words, in a typical Judo move, Putin has used the momentum of the the West's Russia-basing and Putin-bashing campaign to his advantage across the board: Russia will benefit from this economically and politically. Far from being threatened by some kind of "nationalistic Maidan" this winter, Putin's regime is being strengthened by his handling of the crisis (his ratings are higher than ever before).

Yes, of course, the USA have shown they they have a very wide array of capabilities to hurt Russia, especially through a court system (in the US and EU) which is as subservient to the US deep state as the courts in the DPRK are to their own "Dear Leader" in Pyongyang. And the total loss of the Ukrainian market (for both imports and exports) will also hurt Russia. Temporarily. But in the long wrong, this situation is immensely profitable for Russia.

In the meantime, the Maidan is burning again, Andriy Parubiy has resigned, a the Ukies are shelling hospital and churches in Novorussia. What else is knew?

As for Europe, it is shell-shocked and furious. Frankly, my own Schadenfreude knows no bounds this morning. Let these arrogant non-entities like Van Rompuy, Catherine Ashton, Angela Merkel or José Manuel Barroso deal with the shitstorm their stupidity and spinelessness have created.


In the USA, Jen Psaki seems to be under the impression that the Astrakhan region is on the Ukrainian border, while the Russian Defense Ministry plans to "open special accounts in social networks and video hosting resources so that the US State Department and the Pentagon will be able to receive unbiased information about Russian army’s actions".

Will all that be enough to suggest to the EU leaders that they have put their money on the wrong horse?

The Saker
His spelling is atrocious and I don agree with of lot of this but it is certainly interesting.
He is wrong in supposing that only the poor Southern EU states will be hurt. Many Dutch lorries were held up at the Russian border and had to prove, if they could, that they were not carrying fruit, vegetables or milk products. And Air France-KLM the French/Dutch airline, is the largest Western European user of Siberian airspace. Flying round Siberia burning much more fuel, letting the passengers enjoy much longer travel times and spending more on aircraft crews while the Asian competitors are not likewise handicapped will HURT.

Btw look at Ambassador Bhadrakumar's article I copied to the World News Thread for the invitation to join SCO to be extended formally next September to India, Pakistan, Iran and Mongolia. That will strengthen Russia's hand in dealing with sanctions.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Opinion The Nation
Why Is Washington Risking War With Russia?
Kiev’s siege of the Donbass, supported by the Obama administration, is escalating an already perilous crisis.

Katrina vanden Heuvel and Stephen F. Cohen July 30, 2014 | This article appeared in the August 18-25, 2014 edition of The Nation.
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Secretary of State John Kerry and Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin shake hands at the State Department on July 29, 2014 (AP Photo/Cliff Owen).

As The Nation has warned repeatedly, the unthinkable may now be rapidly unfolding in Ukraine: not just the new Cold War already under way but an actual war between US-led NATO and Russia. The epicenter is Ukraine’s eastern territory, known as the Donbass, a large industrial region heavily populated by Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizens and closely tied to its giant neighbor by decades of economic, political, cultural and family relations.

The shoot-down of Malaysian jetliner MH17 on July 17 should have compelled the US-backed government in Kiev to declare a prolonged cease-fire in its land and air attacks on nearby cities in order to honor the 298 victims, give international investigators safe access to the crash site, and begin peace talks. Instead, Kiev, with Washington’s backing, immediately intensified its attacks on those residential areas, vowing to “liberate” them from pro-Russian “terrorists,” as it brands resisters in eastern Ukraine, killing more innocent people. In response, Moscow is reportedly preparing to send heavy weapons to the “self-defenders” of the Donbass.

Now, according to a story in The New York Times of July 27, the White House may give Kiev sensitive intelligence information enabling it to pinpoint and destroy such Russian equipment, thereby, the Times article also suggests, risking “escalation with Russia.” To promote this major escalation, the Obama administration is alleging, without firm evidence, that Russia is already “firing artillery from its territory into Ukraine.” Virtually unreported, however, is repeated Ukrainian shelling of Russia’s own territory, which killed a resident on July 13.

In fact, Kiev has been Washington’s military proxy against Russia and its “compatriots” in eastern Ukraine for months. Since the political crisis began, Secretary of State John Kerry, CIA Director John Brennan and Vice President Joseph Biden (twice) have been in Kiev, followed by “senior US defense officials,” American military equipment and financial aid. Still more, a top US Defense Department official informed a Senate committee that the department’s “advisers” are now “embedded” in the Ukrainian defense ministry.

Indeed, Kiev cannot wage this war on its own citizens—a UN spokesperson says nearly 5,000 civilians have been killed or wounded, which may constitute war crimes—without the Obama administration’s political, economic and military support. Having also created hundreds of thousands of fleeing refugees, Ukraine is bankrupt, its industrial infrastructure damaged, and it is in political disarray, using ultranationalist militias and conscripting men up to 60 years of age.

All of this is unfolding in the context of Washington’s misleading narrative, amplified by the mainstream media, that the Ukrainian crisis has been caused entirely by Russian President Vladimir Putin’s “aggression.” In reality, his role has been mostly reactive:

In November 2013, the European Union, with White House support, triggered the crisis by rejecting Putin’s offer of an EU-Moscow-US financial plan and confronting Ukraine’s elected president, Viktor Yanukovych, with an unnecessary choice between “partnership” with Europe or with Russia. The proposal was laden with harsh financial conditions as well as “military and security” obligations. Not surprisingly, Yanukovych opted for a considerably more favorable financial offer from Putin. Imposing such a choice on the president of an already profoundly divided country was needlessly provocative.

By February, street protests against Yanukovych’s decision turned so violent that European foreign ministers brokered a compromise agreement tacitly supported by Putin. Yanukovych would form a coalition government; Kiev street militias would disarm; the next presidential election would be moved up to December; and Europe, Washington and Moscow would cooperate to save Ukraine from financial collapse. The agreement was overthrown by ultranationalist street violence within hours. Yanukovych fled, and a new government was formed. The White House quickly endorsed the coup.

If any professional “intelligence” existed in Washington, Putin’s reaction was foreseeable. Decades of NATO expansion to Russia’s border, and a failed 2008 US proposal to “fast-track” Ukraine into NATO, convinced him that the new US-backed Kiev government intended to seize all of Ukraine, including Russia’s historical province of Crimea, the site of its most important naval base. In March, Putin annexed Crimea.

Also predictably, the Kremlin’s reaction to developments in Kiev further aroused the rebellion in southeastern Ukraine already under way against the February coup. Within weeks, Ukraine was in a civil war that threatened to become international.

Since April, Putin and his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, have repeatedly called for a cease-fire and negotiations between Kiev and the rebels. Kiev, backed by the Obama administration, has refused to enact any cease-fire long enough to give negotiations a real chance, instead intensifying its war on its fellow citizens as “terrorists.” The White House, according to the Times article, is considering a further escalation, possibly with more dire consequences.

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This, too, is a matter of “intelligence,” if any is being heeded in Washington. For historical, domestic and geopolitical reasons, Putin—or any other imaginable Kremlin leader—is unlikely to permit the Donbass to fall to Kiev, and thereby, as is firmly believed in Moscow, to Washington and NATO. If Putin does give the Donbass defenders heavy weapons, it may be because it is his only alternative to direct Russian military intervention, as Moscow’s diplomatic overtures have been rejected. The latter course could be limited to deploying Russian warplanes to protect eastern Ukraine from Kiev’s land and air forces, but perhaps not. Kremlin hawks, counterparts to Washington’s, are telling Putin to fight today in the Donbass or tomorrow in Crimea. Or as the head of the Carnegie Moscow Center summarizes their position, “It is no longer just a struggle for Ukraine, but a battle for Russia.”

If the hawks on both sides prevail, it might well mean full-scale war. Has there been any other occasion in the modern history of American democracy when such a dire possibility loomed without any public protest at high levels or debate in the establishment media? Nonetheless, the way out is obvious to every informed observer: an immediate cease-fire, which must begin in Kiev, enabling negotiations over Ukraine’s future, the general contours of which are well known to all participants in this fateful crisis.
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8 August 2014 Last updated at 09:50 ET
Russia arrests Ukrainian officers for 'war crimes'
Investigators in Russia have announced the arrest of five Ukrainian army officers for alleged war crimes as fighting rages in eastern Ukraine.
The officers from Ukraine's 72nd Mechanised Brigade are apparently among hundreds of soldiers who crossed into Russia to flee from pro-Russian rebels.
It is unclear on what grounds Russia can prosecute the officers, who reportedly deny the charges.
Meanwhile, government forces in eastern Ukraine lost 15 soldiers within a day.
Fifteen were killed and 79 injured on Thursday, the Ukrainian government said, two days after 18 were killed - the highest daily death toll reported in weeks.
Government forces have been accused of bombarding residential areas from the ground and the air, killing civilians, as they try to recapture rebel strongholds. International monitors have been surveying damage to homes.
In other developments
Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatseniuk proposed imposing Ukrainian sanctions on Russian individuals and companies who sponsored "terrorism" in his country
A Russian war photographer, Andrei Stenin, was reported missing in east Ukraine
The remains of another 21 victims of the Malaysia Airlines plane which crashed in eastern Ukraine have now been formally identified, the Dutch government said, bringing the total to 23
An investigation by the Financial Times found that dozens of computers in the Ukrainian prime minister's office and at least 10 of Ukraine's embassies abroad had been infected with a virulent cyber espionage weapon "linked to Russia"
Arrests in Russia
In a statement (in Russian) on its website, Russia's powerful Investigative Committee (SK) announced that the five officers had been detained following questioning of 400 soldiers from the 72nd Brigade and Ukrainian border guards, who crossed into Russia on Sunday (earlier reports said Monday).
The Ukrainian service personnel were housed by Russian border guards in a tent camp near Gukovo, in Russia's Rostov region, after surrendering their weapons. Many have since returned to Ukraine under Russian escort.
Battalion commander Ivan Voitenko and four of his subordinates - Vitaliy Dubyniak, Olexander Poliakov, Olexander Ohrimenko and Dmytro Ustylko- were detained as part of an investigation into the "use of banned means and methods of conducting war", the SK said.
They are accused of using heavy weapons to bombard two towns in Luhansk region, Krasnopartizansk and Krasnodon, between 19 July and 3 August, killing "at least 10 civilians" and destroying homes.
The men admit taking part in military operations but deny attacking civilians, the Russian investigators said. They are also being investigated for attacks on Russian territory.
The Russian statement, signed by SK spokesman Vladimir Markin, ends with a political attack on the detainees, suggesting that they had been "intoxicated by nationalism".
Last month, Russian prosecutors charged a captured Ukrainian army pilot, Nadiya Savchenko, with complicity in the murder of two Russian journalists.
Border battle
Monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) have been documenting damage to civilian installations in east Ukraine.
On Thursday, a team visited a city hospital in Donetsk hit by shells, the OSCE said in a tweet. They also inspected damage to housing in the war-torn town of Shakhtarsk, close to the site of the flight MH17 crash last month, another tweet said.
International investigators suspended their work at the site on Thursday because of nearby fighting. The destruction of the jet has been blamed in the West on a rebel-fired missile, a charge the separatists deny.
Around 1,500 people, both civilians and combatants, have been killed since Ukraine's new government sent forces into the east in April to put down an armed uprising by the separatists.
Western sanctions against Russia over its role in events in Ukraine prompted a sharp response from the Kremlin this week when it retaliated by banning most food imports from the US and EU.
'
Russia Arrests Ukrainian officers
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Ukraine troops break out of encirclement, 15 troops killed
Photo
7:20pm BST
KIEV (Reuters) - Ukrainian army units which had been trapped by separatists on the border with Russia broke out of the blockade on Friday and rejoined government forces, but 15 soldiers and border guards were killed in the operation, the Ukrainian military said.
Military sources quoted by Ukrainian media said Ukrainian units had been effectively encircled by the rebels on a section of the border with Russia south of the town of Luhansk and east of the main regional city of Donetsk.
After government forces opened up an escape corridor, the trapped units were able to force their way out, military sources quoted by the media said.
"Seven service staff and eight border guards were killed and 79 injured," military spokesman Andriy Lysenko told journalists.
Government forces say they are gradually tightening the noose around the heavily armed pro-Russian separatists whom they have been battling since mid-April in a conflict which the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights says has cost the lives of more than 1,100 people in all, including government forces, rebels and civilians.
The latest military deaths from the fighting in the Russian-speaking east of Ukraine push the death toll among government forces alone to more than 400.
The Kiev government and its Western allies accuse Russia of seeking to de-stabilise Ukraine and arming the rebels, who have declared independent "people's republics" in the two main industrial regions. Moscow denies involvement.
In the biggest Russia-West confrontation since the end of the Cold War, the United States and European Union have imposed sanctions on Russia. Moscow has retaliated with a sweeping ban on imports of many Western foodstuffs.
Fighting has intensified since the shooting down of flight MH17 on July 17, killing all 298 passengers and crew, an act which the West laid at the door of the rebels. Russia and the rebels blame the disaster on Kiev's military offensive.
An international crew of experts retrieving debris and victims' belongings from the crash site which is spread over a wide area in the conflict zone halted their work on Wednesday because of dangers to their safety from fighting.
The Kiev government on Friday announced it would continue to observe a ceasefire in the area, contradicting an earlier announcement on Thursday.
(Writing by Richard Balmforth; Editing by Toby Chopra)
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Over 10,000 killed in Kiev’s punitive op - Ukrainian MP
Published time: August 08, 2014 16:24 Get short URL
Residential buildings in Shakhtyorsk, destroyed by a Ukrainian military artillery attack. (RIA Novosti/Mikhail Voskresenskiy)Residential buildings in Shakhtyorsk, destroyed by a Ukrainian military artillery attack. (RIA Novosti/Mikhail Voskresenskiy)
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More than ten thousand people have been killed in Kiev’s punitive operation in southeastern Ukraine since April, said a Ukrainian parliamentary group. The MPs addressed the president urging to declassify information on citizens killed.

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The Ukrainian parliamentary group “For peace and stability” said on Friday that the figure was given by volunteer groups working in the east of the country, ITAR-TASS reported.

“We have estimated that just in the first two weeks of July nearly 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers were killed in the area of the ‘anti-terrorist operation’,” the group said in a statement in the Verhovnaya Rada (Ukraine’s parliament).

“The number of wounded during the same period was more than 5,000 people. Thousands of civilians fell victim to military actions. Most of them died from shrapnel wounds. Thus, the preliminary number of the Ukrainians killed during the anti-terrorist operation, is more than 10,000 people according to our estimates,” said the co-chairman of the parliamentary group, Sergey Gorokhov.

The MPs also addressed Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and the government, urging to “declassify the official data on the amount of people - civilians, Ukrainian soldiers, and everyone who took part in the anti-terrorist operation – who were killed.”

A dental clinic in downtown Donetsk shelled by Ukrainian forces.(RIA Novosti/Mikhail Voskresenskiy)A dental clinic in downtown Donetsk shelled by Ukrainian forces.(RIA Novosti/Mikhail Voskresenskiy)

Gorokhov stated that the president receives a report on the people killed in the operation every day, but it is classified. Meanwhile, the families of those missing in the military operation zone petition the government each day in the “hope that their close ones will be found,” he added.

“According to local residents of the eastern regions, the bodies of Ukrainians are loaded into vehicles and taken to an unknown destination each day. We demand to tell the Ukrainian people the truth - bitter, heavy, but the truth,” he urged.

DRAMATIC: Ukraine army and self-defense militia exchange bodies (VIDEO)

Earlier on Friday, spokesman for Ukrainian Security Council, Andrey Lysenko, stated that fifteen Ukrainian soldiers have been killed over the last 24 hours.

“Over the last 24 hours, seven armed forces personnel and eight border patrol agents have been killed, while 79 were injured,” Lysenko said.

Kiev's military operation has been intensifying since May. According to the Security Council’s estimates, over 400 soldiers have died in the operation, while 1,600 have been injured.

Medical workers help a woman wounded during the artillery shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian forces. (RIA Novosti/Mikhail Voskresenskiy)Medical workers help a woman wounded during the artillery shelling of Donetsk by Ukrainian forces. (RIA Novosti/Mikhail Voskresenskiy)

According to the UN, as of Tuesday there have been over 1,300 civilian deaths, more than 4,000 have been injured and at least 100,000 people have been forcibly displaced.

Moscow has called numerous times for a unilateral ceasefire and negotiations between the two conflicted sides.

“Instead of giving those people a helping hand, inviting them to the negotiating table, and agreeing on how to live in the country, the military operation is going on,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told Russia's TVC television channel in June.

He called for the start of a dialogue that should be based on the Geneva Statement of April 17, 2014, and the roadmap that was developed by the Swiss representatives of the OSCE at the beginning of May.
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Dannhill

Junior Member
While the German pilot made his observations based on photos of the cockpit walls, OSCE made their own initial observations onsite with the actual pieces of the cockpit walls. I'd take the words of these OSCE monitors over any 3rd hand observations anytime. In another link I'd provided, the crash investigators did say they have collected sufficient materials to find out what shot the plane down, despite not being able to remove the larger pieces.

Hopefully they can clear up the air made super hazy with social media evidences. We don't need another Cold War just to fatten the pockets of fat cat military industrialists.

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The source of the "Bullet holes" report Was this
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Based on Photographs not a Physical examination!
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Global research is not source of any news. I am sorry but they are a Severely politically and Conspiracy theory based site.
 
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