werent the CR929 before did not push through, allegedly, because Rus and Ch did not agree on composition of externally sourced parts?
COMAC C919
- Thread starter Deino
- Start date
It was delayed because of supplier disagreements but it was killed actually because of the Ukraine War.
That is what we have heard from Russian side thought it is a lie or, an excuse to cover their own incompetence and failure. Russia quit from CR929 project because its aviation industry couldn't do their part of the job. The 100% made-in-Russia MC-21-310 reportedly is 5.75 tons heaver than the original MC-21-300 which heavily used foreign components. The new MC-21 isn't a competitor of Boeing 737 max, Airbus A320neo, but just a twin engine Tu-154. If China accepted Russian proposal, CR929 would have become twin-engine Il-96, which no Chinese airlines would want to buy them. China doesn't reject Russian components or has no plan to make indigenous components but China wants to make planes which are commercially competitive, even if it may take longer time to replace foreign components with indigenous ones.
Agree, but that’s only valid as long as the West still plays by the rules . The day there’s a conflict of no return, they will 100% deprive China of these equipment.
So it’s normal the government is trying to source as much critical parts as possible locally
CR929 has a long story.
the actual issue was, Russia demanded IP rights and R&D center in Moscow.
in 2019 UAC completed full scale model testing in high speed wind tunnel and designed composite wing of CR929.. this project was bound to fail as two different mindset of people and requirements. this was even admitted by Irkut's chief designer. but in 2021 both parties decided to have put differences aside in relation and confirmed plans to start first prototype. but this time Russia launched Ukraine operation. in 2023 COMAC decided to go alone as they have gained enough experience with C919 development and domestic suppliers too gained experience with Y-20B/AG-600.
Russia was still interested to supply composite wing but COMAC said, no thanks. C929 composite wing contract gave to Shanghai aircraft industry group. its fuselage contain 51 percent of composite and all high end composite materials sourced from local suppliers. C929 engine mounts, vertical tail and rudder contract given to SAC. majority of onboard airborne systems are from domestic suppliers too.
all thanks to geopolitics and current USA trade policies regarding export control.
Come to think about it, Russians are not really good partners lol Can anyone think of any major joint projects with Russia that has been a success ? Moat have failed it seems , maybe only a few crawled through . For two major countries who don’t seem to have much conflict of interest at the moment they have really few projects they have both undertaken to success which in itself is surprising .
You can say that about a lot of countries. Basically their ambition does not match their capabilities and they remain so friggin arrogant about it lol.
Quite a few; more if you dig to a tea party level.
But major civilian ones come with basic contradictions.
Well, for all it's whoes, Russia does build commercial aircraft on its own, and builds some wide bodies. Next gen wide body (probably a smaller one now) within own borders is a basic must, or Russia's entire connectivity will start crumbling.
Frankly speaking, most probably Russia would have to build a separate 787ish aircraft in any case, but C(R)929 was opportunity to get to the highest bar as well.
China orders western aircraft in thousands without major restrictions, and Chinese current backup policy for sanctions isn't even in building own aircraft, it's in sanctions retaliation and already available rail network. Situation is not the same.
Not having IP etc right after having being sanctioned (in civilian projects without military value) to last screw (literally, not figuratively) is just not an option for a country in Russian situation; aircraft should be produced domestically, and it should have all domestic (or Chinese at least - and one that won't chicken out under sanctions) supply chain from get go.
And given that late C929 was unsellable to Russia itself, it just turned into a pointless IP transfer.
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