lcloo
Major
Thanks, I was under impression that the photos are new.
China Flanker Thread III (land based, exclude J-15)
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
If you like I can check when I‘m back home but I think they were posted around late 2018 around the Zhuhai Airshow
We've seen prototype/one-off J-11B airframes do testing for PGMs before so this isn't a huge surprise.
However it should remain the case that regular in service J-11Bs are not configured for strike/PGM capability
lcloo
Major
It's OK, don't trouble yourself. I will just take them as old photos.
This J11B belongs to the Flight Research Institute and has undergone many modifications to adapt for testing missions.All tests for multiple hardpoints and ground weapon loadings were completed by this J11B.
The reason that makes most sense Ive heard is that of time constraint: the PLAAF needed modern fighters and they needed them asap, strike in the late 1990s and early 2000s was seen as a secondary mission compared to air superiority, so while SAC definitely had the ability to intergrade A2G capabilities into the J11B (and even demonstrated so at one point, as the footage we're discussing clearly shows), the capability was axed in favor of less testing, a smaller chance of delays due to integration issues, etc.
imo it makes sense from the PLAAF's point of view back then. Looking back now its probably not the decision that would make them most happy now but they were probably more concerned with near-future conflicts maybe in the late 2000s.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Yet this declassified footage proves otherwise, that AGM integration was done, and likely was a continuous process as the munitions integrated is clearly the CM400AKG, a relatively modern weapon first publicly unveiled in 2012. This means that the J11B already has the wiring embedded in the airframe for advanced AGM use, so weapons integrated would have been a far more straightforward process involving primarily software, not hardware.
The frustrating ban is the PLA’s sensitivity in allowing footage of their jets with offensive weapons to be shown. This is one instance in particular where you cannot rely on published footage to gauge PLA capabilities.
As said this particular jet is likely either used by SAC or a testing unit, so it may not reflect what actual in-service J11Bs would be capable of. The footage shows that at least one J11B of unknown origin has the capability to use guided AGM as early as 2012, this is not the same as "all J11B could have had the ability to use guided AGM in 2007-ish (iirc that's around when it went IOC)". Even if there were A2G weapons testing during the prototype testing phase (pretty likely I think), it'd still have made sense for the PLAAF to just ditch any such capabilities if adding them and waiting for testing to finish meant delays. Whether such capabilities were added in later batches, during service, or when some were upgraded into J11BG remains to be seen. I wouldn't expect anything crazy but GPS guided munitions e.g. smart bombs, dispensers, cruise missiles, are probably relatively easy to add.
I agree that they keep their air-to-surface munitions highly secret but that seems like a separate topic
There's a difference between "AGM integration was done" versus "this prototype aircraft was configured for flight testing weapons".
For all we know the aircraft itself needed custom additional modifications to enable that specific airframe to launch the weapon -- or, possibly the test was one where the aircraft itself did not require any sort of interfacing with the weapon (therefore it may not even have had any additional modifications).
E.g. it was just basic flight and separation tests. Or even if it was a guided weapons test perhaps the aircraft did not need to cue the weapon itself for that specific test.
The fact is we know the PLAAF have done flight testing with many PGMs in the past, using existing prototype or older aircraft types -- but that doesn't mean the aircraft types themselves in regular service are compatible with the PGMs that have been tested.
We do know that the PLA is secretive about the munitions they actually have in service and operate with for regular units, but I wouldn't take test footage of PGMs with CFTE or off-hand test aircraft as evidence of anything.
In fact, it is better to separate the whole idea of "PGM testing" with "PLA service" overall.
(Back in the 2000s we saw a J-8II tested with LS-6, and we've seen old H-6 variants testing FT family extended range PGMs. We've seen JH-7 family aircraft test a whole variety of different weapons too, yet few ended up integrated with in service aircraft)
OTOH if this was a regular frontline unit J-11B carrying CM-400AKG obviously that would be different.
To add to what you said basically China plans for Taiwan Independence contingencies around certain dates/windows. There was a hard cutoff date for which J-11B needed to be ready, and they made sacrifices accordingly. At that point in time the best BVR fighter aircraft was still MKK/MK2.