Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Yes, and now they need to go back and do it properly asap. They will never be able to catch up at this rate. Skipping steps doesn't work. And everyone is teaching them improperly on purpose, and laughing. The situation is hilarious. India's desperation for a tech transfer is so obvious, and their position is so weak they cannot secure any actual support. The French are just laughing to the bank.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t the current LCA situation have more to do with engine availability rather than industrial capability? From observations they seem to have the capability to at least build a good number of airframes if needed, it’s just that they don’t really have engines to stick in them.
Not to say there wasn’t other areas that went terribly wrong. But the main reason for the LCA programs current stall is the engines. Which honestly is, in and of itself an even bigger issue with their design and procurement planning, but that’s another story.
Please note that I am not negating the, 40 years of requirements updates and redesigns, the ridiculous expectations of their airforce, the lack of political will in the government and much much more. I am only talking about the current problem.
Not to say there wasn’t other areas that went terribly wrong. But the main reason for the LCA programs current stall is the engines. Which honestly is, in and of itself an even bigger issue with their design and procurement planning, but that’s another story.
Please note that I am not negating the, 40 years of requirements updates and redesigns, the ridiculous expectations of their airforce, the lack of political will in the government and much much more. I am only talking about the current problem.
Define a good number of airframes. At the current rate they can produce the Tejas at, it is approx 10 frames per year. They can surely scale this up considerably but it'll never be more than 100 frames per year given how many components are still entirely foreign sourced.
The capability is also another factor. We're assuming the Tejas is a perfectly competent Mig-21 for the modern era. Those are some big shoes to fill. So far the only super-light fighters that can be considered worthy of this title are the Gripen and JF-17, at least in terms of capability, availability and operational readiness rate. Both of these can be considered to tick the box. IAF currently refuses to use the Tejas in any (and so far, every) single engagement despite the Tejas in original and Mk1 form are available for IAF use for some time and are allegedly operational. Contrast with Pakistan which has been using the JF-17 considerably. It is quite literally the PAF's mainstay fighter just like the Su-30MKI is for the IAF and the J-10C + J-16 is for the PLAAF.
Let me properly define what I mean.
By a good number I mean they can build something in the region of 10-20 given their industrial capability. So they can replace the mig-21s and build up their fleet again. Scaling up would be something for the future.
I am not arguing whether the aircraft is as good as its competitors because their problem is far bigger than that and right now they just need airframe capable of flying with capability at or beyond the mig-21s.
Yeah, people forget that mig-21 originally didn't become known as shitcan. It became known for being one of the earliest mach 2 jets, screwing starfighters, thunderchiefs and phantoms, and taking more than a decade for US to truly solve.
Which also conveniently happened to cost nothing.
In this way, modern mig-21, at the very least, will be VLO...
To be fair, there was only 1, and they were very far from it. Tejas mk.1a are very short ranged and explicitly meant as a local asset, rather than deployable/committable reserve.
This system is partially broken nowadays (India just doesn't have enough light fighter squadrons), but next 1a squadrons will go to the northwestern sector.
LCA is "almost there", and it's their best shot. Plus modern fighting environment is complicated enough as to let non-stealth jets remain relevant, provided their equipment and weapons keep up.
The LC problem was of course that Indians severely overestimated themselves (FBW, highly unstable jet), and it took them so long, that a far more modest approach(JF-17) brought more results, earlier, for much less.
Yes, JF-17 didn't really promise independence, but it brought in large, modern air force to a nation that otherwise couldn't afford one, control over aircraft, and a substantial, healthy supplier ecosystem.
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Lethe
Captain
The fifth of seven P17A frigates, INS Dunagiri, was , alongside the fifth of sixteen small, shallow-water ASW craft, INS Agray.
The Indian Navy has received eleven major surface combatants in the 2020s to date (4 P15B destroyers, 2 Talwar frigates, 5 P17A frigates), with four more (two P17A, two Talwar) to come over the next couple of years before a lull period from late 2020s to early 2030s as Next-Generation Corvette (NGC) and P17B frigate programs continue to fructify. A half-dozen small Next Generation Missile Vessels (NGMVs) will also bear fruit in this lull period.
The Indian Navy has received eleven major surface combatants in the 2020s to date (4 P15B destroyers, 2 Talwar frigates, 5 P17A frigates), with four more (two P17A, two Talwar) to come over the next couple of years before a lull period from late 2020s to early 2030s as Next-Generation Corvette (NGC) and P17B frigate programs continue to fructify. A half-dozen small Next Generation Missile Vessels (NGMVs) will also bear fruit in this lull period.
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The engine is the ultimate test of industrial ability.
I think india really needs to start making their own jet engines, no matter how simple or outdated. Imagine the Tejas with a snecma m53 copy (mirage 2000 engine) or 2 Honeywell F125-GA-100 engines (F-CK-1 engines). It will still be able to perform its core functions. They are just being taken along for a ride. The moment they show they can make a jet engine, any jet engine, their negotiation position improves drastically.
That's the problem with Tejas; it won't work.
M53 is substantially larger&won't fit, and it is also much less efficient(SFC) - and for tejas, range is specifically a problem(mk.1)/key requirement(mk.2). It is designed to work specifically off small, powerful yet efficient engine. Which is why the can't jump off this horse, unless they pay someone for developing their specific version(which they did - to GE).
Basically, to make M53 work, they should ve bought M2000 line back then. Which they of course should've and know that. But now, there's no going back.