New (not totally) sailless SSN (09X?) thread

[Tomboy]

Hi Sutton, who apparently has access to higher resolution imagery, says that 09X actually does have a small sail, and that the recent Bohai and new JN boats are the same.

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Hm, I suppose we can now toss out the super advanced next generation submarine thing like all the big shrimps were suggesting. This also massively lowers the expectation of this new submarine given that the single interesting/advanced feature everyone was screaming about was it's sailless design.

 

[mack8]

I would think what the big shrimps say take precedence over whatever this or that western source claims (with all their inherent bias/speculation)? The big shrimps would be in a far better position to actually know what they are talking about imo.

 

[sunnymaxi]

Hm, I suppose we can now toss out the super advanced next generation submarine thing like all the big shrimps were suggesting.

na. this could still be advanced next generation submarine as trio suggested coz they are basically insiders as Ayi said i have to changed the topic coz of the orders from above.

 

[Tomboy]

I would think what the big shrimps say take precedence over whatever this or that western source claims (with all their inherent bias/speculation)? The big shrimps are in far better position to actually know what they are talking about imo.

Doubt it, for other things maybe but not for submarines. These are highly classified, none of them have any real sources on this, all of their claims are basically just their own speculations and given that all of their speculations on next generation submarine were based on the single fact (now false) that the design is sailless.

 

[Maikeru]

I was referring to the idea, touched upon again earlier in this thread, that the Wuchang boat has a nuclear battery or some sort of nuclear auxiliary system in addition to conventional propulsion (akin to the presentation from I think 2017 also referenced).

I am not convinced this is the case, and personally I am leaning more towards the notion that it is indeed a fully nuclear powered design (ie a compact SSN).

I'm not sure it even qualifies as compact. 84 x 8.5m is not far off the size of the RN's Swiftsure/Trafalgar classes and they were considered fully fledged SSN in their day.

 

[Tomboy]

na. this could still be advanced next generation submarine as trio suggested coz they are basically insiders as Ayi said i have to changed the topic coz of the orders from above.

Not really, this type of things can happen when the topic is too sensitive (Which it very likely is), not really proof that they are correct in their analysis or have insider sources.

 

[sunnymaxi]

Doubt it, for other things maybe but not for submarines. These are highly classified, none of them have any real sources on this, all of their claims are basically just their own speculations and given that all of their speculations on next generation submarine were based on the single fact (now false) that the design is sailless.

so you are saying Hi Sutton is more credible just coz he has access to satellite imagery over trio in submarines category ? small sail is visible even on first satellite image.

 

[Tomboy]

so you are saying Hi Sutton is more credible just coz he has access to satellite imagery over trio in submarines category ? small sail is visible even on first satellite image.

HI Sutton is more credible when it comes to actually giving us a description of the submarine, small sail wasn't really visible from the initial image and it did really look like it just had a bump instead of a fully fledged but thin sail. Are you also seriously suggesting the trios have genuine useful insider information on PLAN SSN projects, for some other topics I would say maybe but for this definitely no. They are however very good for their analysis based on the images but unfortunately if you read their posts/analysis (Which I have read quite a few of them in the past few days) you'd find all of them are built extensively upon a single point which is the submarine is sailless and that is now false.

 

[sunnymaxi]

HI Sutton is more credible when it comes to actually giving us a description of the submarine, small sail wasn't really visible from the initial image and it did really look like it just had a bump instead of a fully fledged but thin sail. Are you also seriously suggesting the trios have genuine useful insider information on PLAN SSN projects, for some other topics I would say maybe but for this definitely no. They are however very good for their analysis based on the images but unfortunately if you read their posts/analysis (Which I have read quite a few of them in the past few days) you'd find all of them are built extensively upon a single point which is the submarine is sailless and that is now false.

an extremely sensitive Chinese military platform but you are picking up an outside over trio and of course he is an expert.. that doesn't make sense.

if you read the first ever article of navalnews. they clearly stated a small sail does appeared but it is not the traditional sail usually on all submarines. and sailless doesn't mean completely flat surface. it does have small sail. if i remmeber correctly Para80 also told about small sail on submarine.

Its latest design, a distinctive and innovative vessel that dispenses with the traditional sail

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and yeah it maybe not the super weapon but this is definitely a new class of advanced submarine for special purpose with a completely new and distinctive design.

 

[Tomboy]

an extremely sensitive Chinese military platform but you are picking up an outside over trio and of course he is an expert.. that doesn't make sense.

I'm picking the outsider because he has access to firsthand imagery, how does that not make sense?

if you read the first ever article of navalnews. they clearly stated a small sail does appeared but it is not the traditional sail usually on all submarines. and sailless doesn't mean completely flat surface. it does have small sail. if i remmeber correctly Para80 also told about small sail on submarine.

Its latest design, a distinctive and innovative vessel that dispenses with the traditional sail

The original article obviously suggested it was just a bump like the original JN "sailless" submarine, the new article now say it basically have a traditional sail except its somewhat smaller and thinner, from the illustration it seems like it would be similar to Virigina's thin sail idea like Xiyazhou mentioned. Quite a big difference from "thin sail" to tiny (relatively) bump if you ask me.

and yeah it maybe not the super weapon but this is definitely a new class of advanced submarine for special purpose with a completely new and distinctive design.

You are basically agreeing to throwing out Xiyazhou's idea of next generation SSN here, nowhere did I mention that it would not be advanced. But the reality is basically all of Xiyazhou's analysis is based on the sole fact that the design is sailless, he literally spent two articles on how the sailless design mean the submarine have an extremely high silent cruise speed and how everyone was trying to do it because it was the holy grail of SSN design, in fact probably 95 percent of his argument on this being the next generation submarine is due to its special configuration. Same with the trio's inference of expected performance of the new submarine in their podcast last week.

tl;dr: Advanced, very likely but not new or distinctive of a design as everyone made it out to be initially and actual performance is also likely lower than what they were implying.