No, my opinion.
New sailless SSN (09X?) thread
- Thread starter ACuriousPLAFan
- Start date
Many on here thought it was an icebreaker.
JN has started building Xue Long 3 nuclear ice-breaker last year
During Thursday's talk show, the Yankee and Shilao, when discussing the new submarine, argued that current measurements of the submarine's size, particularly its diameter, are unreliable. The current satellite images of the submarine likely do not represent its largest portion.
Considering the similar new vessel we just saw in the HLD, it suggests that the new vessel is most likely not an experimental or special-purpose vessel, but a truly brand-new class SSN, AKA the Type 095. This then raises the question: what exactly does the vessel seen earlier this year signify?
Considering the similar new vessel we just saw in the HLD, it suggests that the new vessel is most likely not an experimental or special-purpose vessel, but a truly brand-new class SSN, AKA the Type 095. This then raises the question: what exactly does the vessel seen earlier this year signify?
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Well, it appears China might have had its J20 moment with SSNs at last, and depending on the capabilities of the 09X, maybe the J36 moment too.
So it looks like the 095 and this 09X are parallel programmes where the 095 is meant to be the more conservative Sino-Seawolf equivalent, while this 09X is a far more radical and clean slate design.
What more, if it is confined that 09Xs are being built at both JN and HLD, then it would suggest that either the 09X is a joint venture between the two shipyards, or that there is significant ToT going on between the two yards intended to give HLD sail-less tech while JN gets nuclear propulsion and quieting know.
Depending on the scope of the PLAN’s SSN ambitions, and if it truly has called time on further SSK development and procurement, it’s actually worth considering whether it’s just JN who will get a piece of the SSN pie.
It’s entirely feasible to vastly increase 09X production rates if many of the other smaller Chinese yards with SSK production experience worked on non-nuclear hull sections and then shipped those to JN for mating with the nuclear propulsion section for final assembly and outfitting. Hell, depending on what the production bottleneck is, it could easily work the other way where HLD and JN produced the nuclear propulsion segments to ship to other yards for them to complete the build and fit out.
In that sense, it could very well be that the 09X is actually the long rumoured SSKN, where we just underestimated the ambition of the PLAN, so instead of it being an SSK with a small nuclear add-on, it’s actually the latest SSK tech (sail-less tech demonstrator) that gets a full sized SSN nuclear propulsion package to power it.
So it looks like the 095 and this 09X are parallel programmes where the 095 is meant to be the more conservative Sino-Seawolf equivalent, while this 09X is a far more radical and clean slate design.
What more, if it is confined that 09Xs are being built at both JN and HLD, then it would suggest that either the 09X is a joint venture between the two shipyards, or that there is significant ToT going on between the two yards intended to give HLD sail-less tech while JN gets nuclear propulsion and quieting know.
Depending on the scope of the PLAN’s SSN ambitions, and if it truly has called time on further SSK development and procurement, it’s actually worth considering whether it’s just JN who will get a piece of the SSN pie.
It’s entirely feasible to vastly increase 09X production rates if many of the other smaller Chinese yards with SSK production experience worked on non-nuclear hull sections and then shipped those to JN for mating with the nuclear propulsion section for final assembly and outfitting. Hell, depending on what the production bottleneck is, it could easily work the other way where HLD and JN produced the nuclear propulsion segments to ship to other yards for them to complete the build and fit out.
In that sense, it could very well be that the 09X is actually the long rumoured SSKN, where we just underestimated the ambition of the PLAN, so instead of it being an SSK with a small nuclear add-on, it’s actually the latest SSK tech (sail-less tech demonstrator) that gets a full sized SSN nuclear propulsion package to power it.
This section 095 represents my personal opinion; the views expressed by those outside the experimental were mentioned in the conversation.
Yes, but I believe they are working off bad info from the initial HI Sutton post. I doubt they'd have access to better imagery than what we do, especially at the time when the episode was recorded.
They had a very odd opinion on how we were measuring the dimensions of the submarine. They simply thought we were literally just assuming diameter is the same as 09V and scaling it up to get 120m and spent quite a while dwelling on that strange assumption.
Realistically, as of right now we should have a good idea of length and diameter by referencing various objects of known length in the shipyard, we also have spotted pressure hull sections before assembly which we can measure to reasonably good accuracy. The beam should be atleast as wide as 12.5m given that's the diameter of the largest pressure hull section, this is also in agreement with later more precise measurement and estimates from various analysts.
Remember that both Jiangnan and Huludao are subsidiaries of the China State Shipbuilding Corporation.
The Jiangnan New Assembly Hall doesn't have land-based trackways, only trackways to the water, so it would be reliant on barges carrying modules produced elsewhere.
We might see Wuchang shipping submarine modules to Jiangnan.
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With four SSN slots, the Jiangnan New Assembly Hall should be able to produce two SSNs per year.
Then you have Huludao's Southern Assembly Hall, with twice the area and twice the SSN slots. So that would be another four SSNs per year.
So there is already enough assembly hall capacity to produce six SSNs per year.
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Then you have Huludao's Eastern Assembly Hall. They could produce another two SSBN/SSGN sized submarines per year and still have a spare four SSN-sized slots.
Annually, that is already four SSN plus two SSBN/SSGN.
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Do they really need more space for final assembly of submarines?
If so, then Wuchang's new shipyard facilities are the logical next location, but can they get an entire 9000tonne submarine from Wuhan to the ocean?
Not necessarily/exactly. Submarine hull modules can also be transported on land from the fabrication halls located at different parts of the shipyard to the assembly hall(s) using Self-Propelled Modular Transporters (SPMT).
For instance, here are the hull modules of the Columbia and Dreadnought SSBNs being transported across their shipyards on SPMTs:
Theoretically, yes. But practically, no.
Yangtze is navigable for ships of displacement up to about 10000 tons up to Wuhan, all year round. However, the submarine would have to stay on the surface for much of its journey until reaching the downstream portions of the Yangtze, as the midstream portions are known to be relatively shallow. In addition, there is also the question of propulsion efficiency, as larger nuclear-powered submarines tend to have propellers (shrouded or not) that sit higher up than smaller conventionally-powered submarines when measured from the keel. This means that the possibility (and the portion) of the propellers not being completely immersed in the water is higher, which would lead to reduced propulsion efficiency.