On google maps you can also find a similar module (cannot tell whether it’s the same), but it comes out far short of the 12m though, more like 10m-ish.
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New sailless SSN (provisional)
- Thread starter ACuriousPLAFan
- Start date
If it would be me, I'll make this a dedicated underwater warfare sub, primary mission is to hunt Virginias and tail enemy boomers. The large displacement is for larger sonar array, electronics, large torpedo magazine with potentially larger tubes, and of course lots and lots of quietening equipment. I'd want it to be the quietest sub in the world and not worry about multirole at all. Today's Seawolf.
Has this been posted? Courtesy of Alex Luck:
Apparently, the submarine at Huludao / Bohai has been launched and is undergoing outfitting at pierside. In a previous post, Alex states that this hull is identical to the one launched at JNCX, citing unnamed but "credible" sources. It remains to be seen whether or not that is indeed the case. My guess is that it is another 09V.
Apparently, the submarine at Huludao / Bohai has been launched and is undergoing outfitting at pierside. In a previous post, Alex states that this hull is identical to the one launched at JNCX, citing unnamed but "credible" sources. It remains to be seen whether or not that is indeed the case. My guess is that it is another 09V.
Asserting the two newly revealed submarines are the same design seems quite premature, given the remarkably poor quality of imagery seen to date. Now it's possible, even likely, that certain people are privy to (very) high-res images, but I'm not aware of any claims to that effect from reliable sources.
Best to just wait and see, as always. Many plausible scenarios here.
Best to just wait and see, as always. Many plausible scenarios here.
Yes, 120m might be viable. But if you already have a general purpose Type-095 SSN and you're going with an entirely new design which cuts back on torpedo load to become more like an SSGN, then why limit it to 120m?
Assuming it has 4 Payload Modules, they might as well go for an extra 10-20m, to 130-140m and double the VLS count.
If we use the Virginia Payload Module as an example, they would go from 28 to 56 Tomahawks.
If it's a tripack missile, it would go from 12 to 24.
They are useful increases in missile counts for a single engagement.
The displacement would increase <30%, and the overall cost would likely be less than this as well.
But they get double the missile count for this additional spend, with marginal decreases in top speed.
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It looks like they are prioritising pure underwater performance in terms of quietness and maximum speed.
That is a nice-to-have for an SSGN, but really useful for an SSN which is designed to hunt opposing submarines which also have noise levels below ocean background level.
And if you have already have a base SSN design, you can always lengthen it later to accommodate more VLS.
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I think you are making a lot of assumptions here without any firm basis.
The problem is that there are many permutations of possibilities for all manner of roles for this submarine simply because we don't know its details. Heck most people can't even fully agree on its length or beam.
So if the question is "could a SSGN fit in a 120m length, 12m diameter submarine" -- the answer is yes. That's because there are absolutely permutations of the design with what we see where a credible heavy load of cruise missiles could be accommodated (e.g.: 09V likely has 8x tripack tubes for 24 missiles -- one could easily see 16x tripack tubes for 48 missiles in a 120m length submarine if the torpedo compartment is reduced to shift the command and crew compartments forward).
Alternatively, if the question is "could a 120m length, 12m diameter submarine be any other role which isn't a SSGN" -- the answer is also yes, because there are permutations of the design where a larger missile load isn't viable.
My recommendation is to stop trying to "pin down" what this thing's role is first.
Our job is to be quiet, listen and observe and see if any better photos emerge and then await what the Chinese language grapevine says.
Because as it stands, trying to debate its role where so much of its characteristics are unknown, is just a waste of space and time.
I do wish someone would snap a high res image of that Bohai sub. I know people here have, over the years, tried to set up a crowdsourcing account to finance such satellite photo buys but it never materialized. I'd be willing to chip in a little. I suspect the blurry image we got was by Spot satellite or something similar. Nominally at 1.5 m resolution, but in practice it may be a bit worse. Such photos can be fairly cheap at just a few bucks. But as we saw, they're not always enough, still too blurry. What we really need is 50cm resolution, like made by Vantor imagery. Those seem to be purchasable for 20 bucks or less, still not a lot, but - there are no such images available for said location, on the dates we need. Maybe in the future days those options will appear...
I don't think it's just a matter of funding/cost, but I suspect the image providers also have customers/organizations that they are allowed to sell to... and potentially, customers that they can sell to may not have rights to share them or publish them elsewhere without additional purchased rights.
There's a reason why we don't see high quality satellite imagery more frequently despite us knowing how many plentiful satellites there are, and how we've seen high quality imagery from news outlets in the past of eventful launches.
Good spot, but that is a different part than the ones we were talking about (Purple circle).
Looking close up the two pressure hull caps share very similar external features, I've also remeasured everything in GE to make sure the scale is consistent and it turns out the smaller cap is of 10.5-11m in diameter while the larger one is still 12.5m. Assuming they are for the same submarine which AFAIK is pretty likely, it means that the new submarine has a very unusual internal hull layout that ends in two different diameters.
IMO, I would still say this submarine is hybrid hulled given that even the most generous estimates place the beam when accounting into the underwater section at 12.5-13m only but alas we need to wait for hopefully pre-launch pictures to fully confirm this.
It's not that bad actually. Here's a list of the 3 new submarine Assembly Halls at Huludao and Jiangnan
2019 Huludao Eastern Assembly Hall. 40% of overall floor area. 12 SSN Assembly slots split into 3 sections
2022 Huludao Southern Assembly Hall. 40% of overall floor area. 8 SSN Assembly slots, split into 2 sections
2026/2027? Jiangnan New Assembly Hall. 20% of overall floor area. 4 SSN Assembly slots, in 1 section
So Jiangnan only has 20% of newly-built Assembly Hall floor area, and 16% of possible SSN Assembly slots.
(The dimensions of the Jiangnan New Assembly Hall looks similar to a single section of the Huludao Southern Assembly Hall)
If the Jiangnan New Assembly Hall is dedicated to SSN production with a conservative 24 month assembly time, that is capacity for another 2 SSNs per year.
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Then you have the older Assembly halls at Huludao and Jiangnan. Presumably the 09X was built in the older Jiangnan facility