Chinese Economics Thread

DriedDragonfruit

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I don't think anyone's posted this yet, but Taiwan's GDP grew 13.7% in Q1 this year, and their GDP per capita is well ahead of both SK and Japan now. This is pretty insane to say the least and I honestly don't see any potential paths to peaceful reunification with this kind of economic growth. Even wanwanese people on BiliBili, who are probably the most mainland-friendly group of people on the island, are pretty damn smug about their economy and job prospects, so while their growth is obviously pretty unevenly distributed, they are growing at 2000s mainland rates (double digits!) which masks any problems with fair distributions of wealth.

I remember back in 2018-ish, there are people on Zhihu etc. claiming that peaceful reunification is possible if their economy stagnates, but with the way things are going, even if their economy hit a brick wall and the AI bubble completely bursts tomorrow like Japan's did in the 90s, I still don't see how their mindset can change to be open to PR. Even Japan, after three decades of economic decline, is still able to maintain a relatively high QoL and even an increasingly hostile stance towards China. I'm pretty confident that the same will happen to Taiwan, with a long denial phase and a longer anger phase, even if their AI-based economy crashes tomorrow, which is already a highly unlikely event in the next few years to say the least.

idk if anyone is a proponent of peaceful reunification here (as in believing that PR is a possible and likely path, not a unilateralist that is against the use of force unless provoked by principle), but I'd love to hear any arguments for PR being likely or even possible at this point (before the set timeline of 2049, otherwise we'd all be dead by then anyways like Keynes said).
 

AndrewS

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I don't think anyone's posted this yet, but Taiwan's GDP grew 13.7% in Q1 this year, and their GDP per capita is well ahead of both SK and Japan now. This is pretty insane to say the least and I honestly don't see any potential paths to peaceful reunification with this kind of economic growth. Even wanwanese people on BiliBili, who are probably the most mainland-friendly group of people on the island, are pretty damn smug about their economy and job prospects, so while their growth is obviously pretty unevenly distributed, they are growing at 2000s mainland rates (double digits!) which masks any problems with fair distributions of wealth.

I remember back in 2018-ish, there are people on Zhihu etc. claiming that peaceful reunification is possible if their economy stagnates, but with the way things are going, even if their economy hit a brick wall and the AI bubble completely bursts tomorrow like Japan's did in the 90s, I still don't see how their mindset can change to be open to PR. Even Japan, after three decades of economic decline, is still able to maintain a relatively high QoL and even an increasingly hostile stance towards China. I'm pretty confident that the same will happen to Taiwan, with a long denial phase and a longer anger phase, even if their AI-based economy crashes tomorrow, which is already a highly unlikely event in the next few years to say the least.

idk if anyone is a proponent of peaceful reunification here (as in believing that PR is a possible and likely path, not a unilateralist that is against the use of force unless provoked by principle), but I'd love to hear any arguments for PR being likely or even possible at this point (before the set timeline of 2049, otherwise we'd all be dead by then anyways like Keynes said).

In 5-10 years, it is feasible for Chinese semiconductor companies to have caught up with EUV lithography and really pressure the Taiwanese semiconductor industry in leading edge nodes.

And if you look at research for the next generation of semiconductor lithography machines, China is the clear leader in this. This would be more like a 10+ year timeline.
 

AndrewS

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I don't think anyone's posted this yet, but Taiwan's GDP grew 13.7% in Q1 this year, and their GDP per capita is well ahead of both SK and Japan now. This is pretty insane to say the least and I honestly don't see any potential paths to peaceful reunification with this kind of economic growth. Even wanwanese people on BiliBili, who are probably the most mainland-friendly group of people on the island, are pretty damn smug about their economy and job prospects, so while their growth is obviously pretty unevenly distributed, they are growing at 2000s mainland rates (double digits!) which masks any problems with fair distributions of wealth.

I remember back in 2018-ish, there are people on Zhihu etc. claiming that peaceful reunification is possible if their economy stagnates, but with the way things are going, even if their economy hit a brick wall and the AI bubble completely bursts tomorrow like Japan's did in the 90s, I still don't see how their mindset can change to be open to PR. Even Japan, after three decades of economic decline, is still able to maintain a relatively high QoL and even an increasingly hostile stance towards China. I'm pretty confident that the same will happen to Taiwan, with a long denial phase and a longer anger phase, even if their AI-based economy crashes tomorrow, which is already a highly unlikely event in the next few years to say the least.

idk if anyone is a proponent of peaceful reunification here (as in believing that PR is a possible and likely path, not a unilateralist that is against the use of force unless provoked by principle), but I'd love to hear any arguments for PR being likely or even possible at this point (before the set timeline of 2049, otherwise we'd all be dead by then anyways like Keynes said).


Japan today still does have significantly higher average wages and living standards than China, so there is a basis to the Japanese attitude today. But that should change in the future.

Remember that China is on track to be the world leader in terms of developing and also adopting technology.
That should translate into the highest productivity levels and as per the studies, it should also result in the highest wages and therefore living standards in the world. But this will take at least another 15 years.

Given that China will likely displace Taiwan's semiconductor industry in the future, Taiwanese wages and living standards should stagnate, whilst China passes Taiwan (and also Japan and South Korea)

If we also see a future where the US withdraws from the world, then where does that leave Taiwan?
 

PopularScience

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I don't think anyone's posted this yet, but Taiwan's GDP grew 13.7% in Q1 this year, and their GDP per capita is well ahead of both SK and Japan now. This is pretty insane to say the least and I honestly don't see any potential paths to peaceful reunification with this kind of economic growth. Even wanwanese people on BiliBili, who are probably the most mainland-friendly group of people on the island, are pretty damn smug about their economy and job prospects, so while their growth is obviously pretty unevenly distributed, they are growing at 2000s mainland rates (double digits!) which masks any problems with fair distributions of wealth.

I remember back in 2018-ish, there are people on Zhihu etc. claiming that peaceful reunification is possible if their economy stagnates, but with the way things are going, even if their economy hit a brick wall and the AI bubble completely bursts tomorrow like Japan's did in the 90s, I still don't see how their mindset can change to be open to PR. Even Japan, after three decades of economic decline, is still able to maintain a relatively high QoL and even an increasingly hostile stance towards China. I'm pretty confident that the same will happen to Taiwan, with a long denial phase and a longer anger phase, even if their AI-based economy crashes tomorrow, which is already a highly unlikely event in the next few years to say the least.

idk if anyone is a proponent of peaceful reunification here (as in believing that PR is a possible and likely path, not a unilateralist that is against the use of force unless provoked by principle), but I'd love to hear any arguments for PR being likely or even possible at this point (before the set timeline of 2049, otherwise we'd all be dead by then anyways like Keynes said).
I heard that taiwan counts taiwan companies in china as taiwan gdp. I m not sure.
 

Michael90

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I don't think anyone's posted this yet, but Taiwan's GDP grew 13.7% in Q1 this year, and their GDP per capita is well ahead of both SK and Japan now. This is pretty insane to say the least and I honestly don't see any potential paths to peaceful reunification with this kind of economic growth. Even wanwanese people on BiliBili, who are probably the most mainland-friendly group of people on the island, are pretty damn smug about their economy and job prospects, so while their growth is obviously pretty unevenly distributed, they are growing at 2000s mainland rates (double digits!) which masks any problems with fair distributions of wealth.

I remember back in 2018-ish, there are people on Zhihu etc. claiming that peaceful reunification is possible if their economy stagnates, but with the way things are going, even if their economy hit a brick wall and the AI bubble completely bursts tomorrow like Japan's did in the 90s, I still don't see how their mindset can change to be open to PR. Even Japan, after three decades of economic decline, is still able to maintain a relatively high QoL and even an increasingly hostile stance towards China. I'm pretty confident that the same will happen to Taiwan, with a long denial phase and a longer anger phase, even if their AI-based economy crashes tomorrow, which is already a highly unlikely event in the next few years to say the least.

idk if anyone is a proponent of peaceful reunification here (as in believing that PR is a possible and likely path, not a unilateralist that is against the use of force unless provoked by principle), but I'd love to hear any arguments for PR being likely or even possible at this point (before the set timeline of 2049, otherwise we'd all be dead by then anyways like Keynes said).
Dude , in such high stakes geo political issues , you should look at things from a long term perspective in 10 to 20 to 30 year . We don’t even know what will happen next year , so it’s silly to be worried because of good rate of growth In Taiwan. Plus it’s als because of the explosion of AI chips which needs foundry where Taiwan is by far the worlds leader .
 

kafkahibino

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The CCP doesn't actually want to see the real estate market collapse!
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why would the party want real estate to collapse , i think they want property to appreciate in line with the inflation so that no one makes a loss on their home purchase and let equities be the instrument of wealth preservation and growth
 

tamsen_ikard

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Japan today still does have significantly higher average wages and living standards than China, so there is a basis to the Japanese attitude today. But that should change in the future.

Remember that China is on track to be the world leader in terms of developing and also adopting technology.
That should translate into the highest productivity levels and as per the studies, it should also result in the highest wages and therefore living standards in the world. But this will take at least another 15 years.

Given that China will likely displace Taiwan's semiconductor industry in the future, Taiwanese wages and living standards should stagnate, whilst China passes Taiwan (and also Japan and South Korea)

If we also see a future where the US withdraws from the world, then where does that leave Taiwan?
If China had Japan's GDP per capita, its total GDP will be 47 trillion dollars. It will blow past everyone and reach almost US + EU level.

Can you imagine how enormous the power China will have?

Moreover, what kind economic crisis will countries like Japan and US face due to China taking away their marketshare if China is to reach that level of total GDP?

Its just not about the quality of life. China will have enormous power over the world if they reach that level of GDP.
 
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