French pilots aren’t as good.
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Do you have source for that, or is it based more on personal expectations?
F-35 prices don't stand out all that much, despite being effectively a dominant force in the market.
Yes, it's nice to be able to sell equipment at a premium. But it also has to be measured up against your clients' budget. China isn't US, buyers of Chinese aircraft will inherently be on a poorer side, more often than not - via Chinese credit line(risks).
Chinese aircraft buyers are also buying just the aircraft; deal doesn't include regime protection services.
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High-end fighter jets require a full suite of supporting systems—compatible munitions, logistics and maintenance, pilot training, and other integrated services. Advanced military equipment is not like an AK-47 that you can simply buy and use casually.
Just the high-end engines, world-leading AESA radar, stealth coatings, encrypted communication systems, data-link integration, and similar technologies already cost far more than the J-10. The R&D effort involving tens of thousands of people is beyond casual imagination. Do I still need to explain why the J-35 is extremely expensive?
China does sell arms differently from the United States, but China is not running a charity. Building a defense system is enormously expensive—don’t fantasize that others will support you without regard to cost.
After producing over a thousand F-35s, the US barely managed to keep its procurement costs for its own use to around $100 million. While the early production costs of the J-35 may not exceed those of the F-35, as a military product, one shouldn't expect to purchase a truly world-leading piece of equipment at cost price.
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You do, because it doesn't work this way.
World leading and not world leading AESA radar(esp. when both are of roughly similar class) is still aesa radar; they are unlikely to cost order of magnitude different prices. Comms are applicable in both cases, etc. J-35 is certainly going to be significantly more maintenace heavy, but it isn't upfront price.
As a matter of fact, F-35 right now(with your whole list) is second least expensive US export fighter, right on top of F-16(and 3rd least expensive western fighter, as there's also barely cheaper Gripen E).
I personally don't expect J-35 to cost unreasonable money - it will certainly be more expensive than J-35, but still within realm of acceptable for wealthier Chinese clients (which sadly only really means Pakistan). And precisely because it currently means mostly Pakistan - be careful of overly high prices, otherwise it literally won't be sold to anyone.
We're here in Indian thread - Indian economy is literally >10 times bigger than Pakistani one. This is reality of the market - IAF can make worse purchases than PAF for 4-6 times the price, and they still end up better off financially. If you want to sell fly off aircraft for 150 million with additional package adding twice that - find wealthy customers.
There's limit how much you can offload R&D on customer, unless you do it for customer specifically (like F-15QA, or FC-17). Otherwise they'll just search elsewhere. Even Pakistan, which is by far the most loyal Chinese aircraft customer, is not a captive customer - they have choice.
With all due respect, in terms of aircraft sales, China - by itself - just isn't all that succesful, and large part of success comes from Pakistan (both as a customer and as a very active promoter), not from Chengdu and Shenyang teams. And sure, we're now laughing at India for spending so much money to get their ~180 strong(AF+navy) Rafale fleet.. But let's be frank - happy laugh extends life, but France is about to make more money than entire chinese fighter exports potfolio over last several decades. It's a bit too early to be snobbish.
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China's primary goal in developing aircraft is to serve the PLA; there's no profit-driven motive like in military-industrial complexes. Pakistan's impressive results using Chinese equipment certainly have promotional value for military enthusiasts, but for those truly studying defense and military affairs, this is common knowledge and nothing surprising. The real decision-makers for equipment procurement are not military enthusiasts. Currently, the biggest obstacle to China's arms exports is political; if you can't even understand this, I don't want to elaborate further.
Stealth fighters are in a seller's market; don't assume you have many choices.
antiterror13
Brigadier
It seems you are being very generous, I think when 150 Rafaels all delivered (if it would happen at all) J-36/J-50 would be in full production, similar to J-20 in 2022
the Pakistan Airforce and govt have already confirmed that the J35AE is being purchased, we will pay for the aircraft and the Chinese govt will be generous in the cost and payment for these aircraft, the PLA will also support this deal, other stuff in the pipeline as well, don’t like it, take it up with the CPC who apparently are very happy with this deal.
IIRC there are no confirmed news of this?
I have no ill will toward the deal between Pakistan and China; I'm simply stating some well-known facts. The Chinese military has always been low-key about arms sales, and they won't acknowledge any such transactions until the very last minute. Therefore, your claim that an agreement has been reached is not very credible.
The fact is, China currently has a significant need for medium-sized stealth fighters, and equipping its aircraft carriers with a full complement of J-35s is currently the top priority. China wouldn't export its latest military equipment; the J-10 served in the Chinese military for nearly thirty years before being exported. We have no reason to believe that China would export the J-35 immediately; it defies common sense.
I predict two timelines for J-35 exports:
1. India acquires advanced fifth-generation fighter jets and gains an advantage over the Pakistani Air Force;
2. The J-50 enters service.
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the PAF has confirmed that the J35AE is coming, as well as the govt, there are official airforce promo vids with it on YouTube.