J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[arthur2046]

So in other words, the F-22's mission profile is indeed enemy fighters, and that ties back to what I said. The J-20's intent is enemy tankers and the like, and only engages enemy fighters out of *necessity*. To the J-20, engaging enemy fighters is a chore that it has to get out of the way before it can complete its primary mission. The F-22 on the other hand, (at least according to USAF promo videos and other publicly available info so I could be wrong here) is born and bred to engage and dominate enemy fighters first and foremost, while using its incredible stealth and maneuverability to survive in hostile airspace, which makes it that much more terrifying, and in my book, a true air superiority fighter unlike the J-20. You could argue that in a typical mission, the J-20 will always have to engage enemy fighters before it can get to the tankers, but in my opinion, engagement out of necessity and engagement out of intent are fundamentally different

Why do you always assume that the J-20's only targets are aerial refueling tankers and AWACS aircraft? Why can't its mission profile also include engaging the F-22? F22 has posed a threat to China for years, countering the F-22 is a crucial primary objective for the J-20. Although the J-20 may have inferior maneuverability compared to the F-22, but it is equipped with superior radar and longer-range air-to-air missiles such as the PL-15 , which are more critical in beyond-visual-range combat than maneuverability. Although the F-22 is renowned for its agility, there was an incident where two F-22s were locked on by a single J-16…

 

[siegecrossbow]

Are we seriously having the J-20 is pure interceptor debate in 2025???

 

[Mearex]

there was an incident where two F-22s were locked on by a single J-16…

I've heard of this but is this actually real?

 

[latenlazy]

Are we seriously having the J-20 is pure interceptor debate in 2025???

Just surrender this narrative will never die.

 

[Gloire_bb]

It's not so much that the F-22 is designed to engage enemy fighters first and foremost, rather that a combination of its own individual characteristics and the operational and strategic context in which the US forces in the western pacific exists, means that it is not well suited to do more than engage enemy fighters.

To be fair, nothing prevents it really. If it can reach the center and target fighters - it can use same advantages to break through aerial order of battle and reach multipliers.

Somewhat grim reality of necessity for numbers for medium Chinese AWACS planes is that it's indeed a pool, which will be attrited.

I've heard of this but is this actually real?

Why is it's surprising even? LO/VLO isn't iwin, J-16 has a powerful, modern AESA radar with array equal or larger to F-22 itself.
Especially since particular event in question was J-16 outmaneuvering and locking f-22 pilots from close range from the rear. Frankly, I think even J-8 would get solid lock in that situation.
And J-16 can do way more than just a rear hemisphere lock from a couple KMS away.

 

[Blitzo]

To be fair, nothing prevents it really. If it can reach the center and target fighters - it can use same advantages to break through aerial order of battle and reach multipliers.

Somewhat grim reality of necessity for numbers for medium Chinese AWACS planes is that it's indeed a pool, which will be attrited.

I agree with this, in the sense that there are absolutely prospects where PRC force multipliers might over extend and be at risk (I'm certainly not suggesting they won't suffer losses) -- rather if one compares between J-20 and F-22 in the respective operational/strategic basing contexts, and the way each side would operate their force multipliers, the prospect of F-22 doing the "HVT hunting" is not quite as likely as for the J-20.

 

[Mearex]

Why is it's surprising even? LO/VLO isn't iwin, J-16 has a powerful, modern AESA radar with array equal or larger to F-22 itself.
Especially since particular event in question was J-16 outmaneuvering and locking f-22 pilots from close range from the rear. Frankly, I think even J-8 would get solid lock in that situation.
And J-16 can do way more than just a rear hemisphere lock from a couple KMS away.

It's not that I don't believe it, it's just that claims like these are usually shot down pretty fast in this forum without substantial evidence, and if true this would be pretty big news. Was this discussed further in another thread?

 

[Blitzo]

It's not that I don't believe it, it's just that claims like these are usually shot down pretty fast in this forum without substantial evidence, and if true this would be pretty big news. Was this discussed further in another thread?

Yes this was discussed in quite a bit of detail when it emerged some months ago.

I think it may have been in the Flanker thread, feel free to peruse it.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Yes this was discussed in quite a bit of detail when it emerged some months ago.

I think it may have been in the Flanker thread, feel free to peruse it.

Officially PLAAF didn’t mention the type of aircraft other than that it was first encounter with enemy stealth fighter aircraft but Yankeesama hinted that they were F-22. This is backed by fact that PLAAF has encountered F-35 since around 2022.

 

[vincent]

A reminder on how the PLAAF expects aerial battles are fought