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Ringsword

Senior Member
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
That's what annoys me about China's "benevolence" because it plays consistently into China's history. Are we incapable of learning the lessons of the past, or are the current leaders just so enamored with the party's hold on power and stability that they'll keep pushing and adjusting the red lines, make bluster about it, but then move on just as quickly when the offending party shows some fake and contrite concessions?
I can't help but reinforce the perpetual label of mercantile, money-hungry, materialistic cowards.
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I understand your anger and dismay ...but isn't this idea of us erroneous as this is what the Japanese themselves thought from 1895 to 1945 thinking that cowardly,weak,money-grubbing China/Chinese will fold/surrender after only 3 months of fighting with the samurai-descended,martially-imbued Japanese-and after even the wholesale,deliberate savage,brutalities inflicted by the Japs from Nanking to every town/village the Chinese endured,retaliated and fought back despite having been burdened by every material/physical handicap to the surprise and rage of the Japs from Hirohito on down to the lowest private?I too want a very,strong response to the Japs insolent,insulting,hateful words-DF31 strength "attitude correction" but I am too easily baited by them and a measured,proportional and yet strong response from China that can't be mistaken for weakness and will promise to escalate to destruction if necessary..but only on China's terms and timing is the proper way.Let's wait it out brother.
 
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Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
That's what annoys me about China's "benevolence" because it plays consistently into China's history. Are we incapable of learning the lessons of the past, or are the current leaders just so enamored with the party's hold on power and stability that they'll keep pushing and adjusting the red lines, make bluster about it, but then move on just as quickly when the offending party shows some fake and contrite concessions?
I can't help but reinforce the perpetual label of mercantile, money-hungry, materialistic cowards.
Click to expand...
Deep culture is difficult to change. Mao tried his best to forge Chinese culture into a militaristic, collectivist culture and for a while it worked - see the Korean War where the PLA volunteers earned a fierce reputation as being no less courageous than the Imperial Japanese - but ultimately it wasn’t sustainable because while all those brave volunteers died, their more cowardly counter parts back home bred, and so the new generation of Chinese lost the edge of their predecessors.

The truth is, prosperity and abundance - normally the hall marks of a successful civilization - are ever cultivators of weakness in martial spirit. If people can afford to hide behind civility and peace and still procreate successfully, then they will. Strength of arms comes from constant violence and hardship. Thus the northern nomads of old were forced to be superb warriors, since their societies were brutal, violent environments where only the victors of the incessant tribal wars got to breed and pass down their genes & values. Weak men were simply weeded out & their women enslaved.

No such filter exists in Chinese society. You are not rewarded for being violent but punished, because the society is primarily one of producers and such people abhor violence since it disrupts their productivity. Hence do not be surprised if the Chinese response is more economic and demonstrative in nature without crossing into overt violence. You cannot change the nature of Chinese society just with slogans & history lessons. To truly become a martial society you must create the conditions - ie rewarding it with reproductive success like the nomads did. I’m not sure people here really wants that for China.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Ringsword said:
What the Japanese don't realize is when China is dealing with Dutch,Estonia even America etc it doesn't have the gut-wrenching emotional rage that dealing with the Japanese does with all of its wholesale industrial-scale,savage,brutal,genocidal,murderous actions from the IJA/IJN/Jap gov't that was inflicted on the Chinese from 1895(Taiwan)-to WW2 and being so-damned stupid the Japs have drunk their own hating-China kool-aid for so long that they may actually die in stupidity and ignorance, saying"why,why why"
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I think you are doing China a massive disservice attributing everything to mere emotions.

Sure, Japanese brutality during WWII is most certainly a factor. But the far more important ones are it’s unapologetic stance, openly celebrating convicted war criminals, and persistent mask-off comments and actions that makes Beijing convinced that they would invade China in a heartbeat if they think they could actually win.

That, and its geopolitical location and vassalage to America makes it a persistent threat that constitutes a clear and present danger to China all by itself.

The reality is that in the event of a direct war between China and America, America can choose to continue the war more or less indefinitely so long as it has Japan as a base of operations.

The geographical reality is that using Japanese territory, America can always threaten Chinese mainland areas while China will find it far harder to strike to CONUS.

So, in order to totally secure the Chinese mainland from conventional American attack (I’m talking about large scale attacks that can punch through Chinese defences and cause significant damage, not just harassment attacks hoping to slip though defences and cause embarrassment), China needs the ability to stop America from using Japan as one giant FoB. That’s what the PLAN fleet modernisation for the last 20 years have been basically building up to. The sheer quantity of ships, and the fleet makeup is utter overkill for Taiwan, and any talk of invading CONUS is just pure nonsense. But it would be basically what you need to blockade and/or invade the Japanese home islands.
 
Faisal Iqbal

Faisal Iqbal

Junior Member
Registered Member

Forehead @ 16:30

For any of China's aircraft, aerodynamic challanges, production line errors, uknown weak spots, vulnerabilities or under performning technology could all be lurking, just waiting to bite China's pilots and the commanders in the arse and as a major factor as experience undoubtly is China's lack of familiarity with real aeriel combat, that's only the start......
 
A

A potato

Junior Member
Registered Member
Eventine said:
Deep culture is difficult to change. Mao tried his best to forge Chinese culture into a militaristic, collectivist culture and for a while it worked - see the Korean War where the PLA volunteers earned a fierce reputation as being no less courageous than the Imperial Japanese - but ultimately it wasn’t sustainable because while all those brave volunteers died, their more cowardly counter parts back home bred, and so the new generation of Chinese lost the edge of their predecessors.

The truth is, prosperity and abundance - normally the hall marks of a successful civilization - are ever cultivators of weakness in martial spirit. If people can afford to hide behind civility and peace and still procreate successfully, then they will. Strength of arms comes from constant violence and hardship. Thus the northern nomads of old were forced to be superb warriors, since their societies were brutal, violent environments where only the victors of the incessant tribal wars got to breed and pass down their genes & values. Weak men were simply weeded out & their women enslaved.

No such filter exists in Chinese society. You are not rewarded for being violent but punished, because the society is primarily one of producers and such people abhor violence since it disrupts their productivity. Hence do not be surprised if the Chinese response is more economic and demonstrative in nature without crossing into overt violence. You cannot change the nature of Chinese society just with slogans & history lessons. To truly become a martial society you must create the conditions - ie rewarding it with reproductive success like the nomads did. I’m not sure people here really wants that for China.
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The world literally assumed that the Coastal/Eastern Chinese people aka the cucks would represent the whole country but no that is not how this works. A big reason why Japan struggled inland and why PVA were aggressive was the soldiers were largely from the Western part of China which is far more nationalist than the east and alot more war like (White worshipping dosen't really exist in the west especially Shaanxi, Shanxi and Henan). The Northwestern KMT armies (The same ones behind the Xi'an incident) layed down their arms are aligned with the CCP when the round 2 of civil war started and these armies gave Japan a bloody nose during Anti Japanese war. There is a reason why me and my Shanghainese dad pretend that our Shanghainese culture dosen't exist and just focus on my mom's Shaanxi heritage.
 
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T

tokenanalyst

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Faisal Iqbal said:

Forehead @ 16:30

For any of China's aircraft, aerodynamic challanges, production line errors, uknown weak spots, vulnerabilities or under performning technology could all be lurking, just waiting to bite China's pilots and the commanders in the arse and as a major factor as experience undoubtly is China's lack of familiarity with real aeriel combat, that's only the start......
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And still The Pakistanis Chinese jets manage to down Indians Rafales like ducks. That alone should be a gigantic warning, doesn't? I cannot even imagine what is going to happen when they get really good at air combat.
 
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