052C/052D Class Destroyers

00CuriousObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's the procurement for 15th FYP, as of right now if the contracts are what people think they are, the confirmed total number in the foreseeable future will become 43 ships. Right now, there are only 38 ships launched.

I believe it’s only 36, with two being CCG “052D variants”. These tenders may not differentiate them in this way, so we may end up only seeing 41 052Ds in practice.

Also this news tracks with what Yankee said earlier:

  • It's only a matter of time before the number of 052Ds exceeds 40



If the information for the 39th - 43rd 052D DDG contracts are accurate:

Honestly at this point, China might as well go for an eventual overall number of 50x 052D DDGs by the end of 15FYP, of which their construction and launching would hopefully occur concurrently with the construction and launching of the first units of the next-generation successor DDGs to the 052D family.

All-in-all, China should aim for superiority against the combined fleet of modern DDGs that are fielded (and to be fielded in the coming years) by the JMSDF, ROKN and RAN, in terms of quantity at the very least as benchmark.

Rumour has it that construction of the next-gen DDGs has already begun, so the "concurrent construction" may be with this batch of 052Ds.
 

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
If the information for the 39th - 43rd 052D DDG contracts are accurate:

Honestly at this point, China might as well go for an eventual overall number of 50x 052D DDGs by the end of 15FYP, of which their construction and launching would hopefully occur concurrently with the construction and launching of the first units of the next-generation successor DDGs to the 052D family.

All-in-all, China should aim for superiority against the combined fleet of modern DDGs that are fielded right now (and to be fielded in the coming years) by the JMSDF, ROKN and RAN, in terms of quantity at the very least as benchmark.
IMO, assuming the next generation DDG goes well, there is no point in building anymore 052D after these. More obsolete ships will just take up more valuable crews when they could've been crewing a much better ship perhaps with a slight delay due to newer designs taking a bit to scale up production. Also, in the future you'd be ending up with a bunch of ships that is suboptimal for your mission set as a global power considering the entire 052 series has been built on the doctrines of a small regional navy. I don't see the point of making life hard later on just for the sake of having more ships in the next 5 years.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
IMO, assuming the next generation DDG goes well, there is no point in building anymore 052D after these. More obsolete ships will just take up more valuable crews when they could've been crewing a much better ship perhaps with a slight delay due to newer designs taking a bit to scale up production. Also, in the future you'd be ending up with a bunch of ships that is suboptimal for your mission set as a global power considering the entire 052 series has been built on the doctrines of a small regional navy. I don't see the point of making life hard later on just for the sake of having more ships in the next 5 years.

It's a stretch to call the 052D "obsolete".
The VLS cells, radars and datalinks will keep the 052D relevant for the rest of their service lives as a front-line combat vessel.

It's just that:
1. a larger hull would be preferable for the future
2. the base 052 design is 25 years old now, so an update is due
 

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's a stretch to call the 052D "obsolete".
The VLS cells, radars and datalinks will keep the 052D relevant for the rest of their service lives as a front-line combat vessel.

It's just that:
1. a larger hull would be preferable for the future
2. the base 052 design is 25 years old now, so an update is due
Once China becomes a true global power, long term far sea operation is going to be a much more important feature and unfortunately is something you cannot simply just "add" to a ship like weapons or sensors. These hulls are just not built with that in mind as they were originally designed decades ago when China was still weak and sustained blue water operations are a pipedream. The last 052D are likely going to serve into the 2060s if going by a 30 year lifespan or even further into the future if they continue building more of them. While I agree that their weapon system and sensors as of right now are probably going to keep them relevant for a decade or likely more depending how much USN shipbuilding deteriorate, their hulls are definitely not.

Also, GT25000s are pretty terrible gas turbines AFAIK and unfortunately basically all legacy PLAN vessels are built on it. Personally hoping that all new surface vessels will be built on next generation turbines like CGT30/40.
 

sunnymaxi

Colonel
Registered Member
Also, GT25000s are pretty terrible gas turbines AFAIK and unfortunately basically all legacy PLAN vessels are built on it. Personally hoping that all new surface vessels will be built on next generation turbines like CGT30/40.
CGT30/40 and other marine GTs specially designed for next generation ships and all are Three shaft design which is extremely efficient.

15FYP is very crucial for PLAN/PLAAF in terms of new platforms and we don't even use 1% shipbuilding output on PLAN. right now PLAN should have 100+ destroyers. but hoping for recovery in 2025-30..
 

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
CGT30/40 and other marine GTs specially designed for next generation ships and all are Three shaft design which is extremely efficient.

15FYP is very crucial for PLAN/PLAAF in terms of new platforms and we don't even use 1% shipbuilding output on PLAN. right now PLAN should have 100+ destroyers. but hoping for recovery in 2025-30..
IMO, I doubt the rate of construction will increase in 25-30 period. 15th FYP from what people are rumoring about will be a big turning point for the PLA where a lot of advanced cleansheet designs will be inducted while getting rid of legacy equipments designed with conservative doctrine and requirements.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Once China becomes a true global power, long term far sea operation is going to be a much more important feature and unfortunately is something you cannot simply just "add" to a ship like weapons or sensors.

Today, the Chinese military is significantly smaller than the US Navy, and would almost certainly lose in a contest for sea control beyond the 2IC.

So the priority is to change the military balance as fast as reasonably possible.

I reckon it will be about 10 years before the overall Chinese military has the capacity to obtain air-sea superiority over the 2IC.
And then another 5-10 years before the Chinese Navy (centred around aircraft carriers) becomes significantly larger than the US Navy, and therefore can credibly operate beyond the 2IC.

That is 15-20 years where the primary mission (for all Chinese Navy ships) will be within 2IC distances, and where the priority is to have the maximum number of high-end ships (such as Destroyers) immediately available in the Western Pacific, not to have them all conducting long-term far seas operations like the US Navy with its obsession on being "present" everywhere on the planet.

And remember that if the Chinese military can establish air-sea superiority over the 2IC, it likely means a significant portion of the US Navy has been taken out. At this point, it could mean the Chinese Navy being larger than the US Navy. The implication is that the Chinese Navy can now roam the seas.

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Remember that they used to send Destroyers on the anti-piracy missions to the Gulf of Aden, but such missions have been downgraded, with even the older Type-053 Frigates being sent. I wouldn't be surprised if the missions were downgraded even further with coast guard ships being sent, which can still do the same job.

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I'm not against a new hull design which is larger, but I think the priority is still missions within the 2IC.

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Can you credibly describe scenarios where a Type-052D needs to conduct long-term far sea operations, and also what weapons or sensors it needs to add in the future, in order to avoid obsolescence?


These hulls are just not built with that in mind as they were originally designed decades ago when China was still weak and sustained blue water operations are a pipedream. The last 052D are likely going to serve into the 2060s if going by a 30 year lifespan or even further into the future if they continue building more of them. While I agree that their weapon system and sensors as of right now are probably going to keep them relevant for a decade or likely more depending how much USN shipbuilding deteriorate, their hulls are definitely not.

VLS cells will still be relevant in 30 years time. After all, you can put any sort of missile in them.
The large AESA radar panels will also still be able to provide long-range air-defence against aircraft and incoming missiles.

Why do you think the Type-052D will only be relevant for the next 10 years?
 

ismellcopium

Junior Member
Registered Member
Isn't the 055 successor still farther off than the 9-10k ton 052D successor? I wonder why they didn't just procure a couple more 055s instead of even more 052Ds.
 
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