News on China's scientific and technological development.

[tphuang]

How behind are we in high end CNC machines?

I thought Chinese companies can compete in high end CNC just not every subsystem is domestic

They are competing in the high end in the commercial CNC market, but not every subsystem is domestic.

Keep in mind that Chinese companies can probably get something at the same performance level (or close to that) of Germans and Japanese because those foreign companies move slower (so are not necessarily using the latest subsystems available), but that doesn't mean all the subsystems it uses are at globally leading levels.

So, if you can get the Chinese subsystems (critical ones) to globally leading levels, then it can have higher quality CNC machines than Germans and Japanese.

I think I talked about this before, Americans and Brits apparently have access to certain CNC machines that are not available in commercial market. They are probably not commercially viable, but are just used for defense sector. Building smaller batch (with no cost control to think about) allowed them to use latest tech. But China can do this at much larger scale once it has access to the same high quality supply chain. And it can just destroy the competition in commercial market.

 

[tphuang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1984772057054527832

now my thread on the growth of China's laser industry. Now, this goes beyond just CNC machines, but also cutting, cleaning, welding and a bunch of others. And most importantly, in the modern lidars, laser scanning and optical modules.

 

[2handedswordsman]

They are competing in the high end in the commercial CNC market, but not every subsystem is domestic.

Keep in mind that Chinese companies can probably get something at the same performance level (or close to that) of Germans and Japanese because those foreign companies move slower (so are not necessarily using the latest subsystems available), but that doesn't mean all the subsystems it uses are at globally leading levels.

So, if you can get the Chinese subsystems (critical ones) to globally leading levels, then it can have higher quality CNC machines than Germans and Japanese.

I think I talked about this before, Americans and Brits apparently have access to certain CNC machines that are not available in commercial market. They are probably not commercially viable, but are just used for defense sector. Building smaller batch (with no cost control to think about) allowed them to use latest tech. But China can do this at much larger scale once it has access to the same high quality supply chain. And it can just destroy the competition in commercial market.

Chinese Midea group have acquired German KUKA robots years ago

 

[antiterror13]

Chinese Midea group have acquired German KUKA robots years ago

Do you think Germany would do to Kuka like Netherland did to Nexperia ?

 

[sunnymaxi]

Do you think Germany would do to Kuka like Netherland did to Nexperia ?

KUKA is 100 percent owned by Midea now. entire Asian production shifted in China. they have Three major production sites in China plus major R&D centers. nothing they can do about. China now owned IP of KUKA.

 

[antiterror13]

KUKA is 100 percent owned by Midea now. entire Asian production shifted in China. they have Three major production sites in China plus major R&D centers. nothing they can do about. China now owned IP of KUKA.

In theory, they could. The head office of Kuka is in Augsburg, Bavaria - Germany. Major manufacturing and R & D is also there

The same thing as Nexperia, the head office is in Netherland even no fabs there

 

[sunnymaxi]

In theory, they could. The head office of Kuka is in Augsburg, Bavaria - Germany. Major manufacturing and R & D is also there

The same thing as Nexperia, the head office is in Netherland even no fabs there

Germany has too major R&D and production centers coz of European market.

but China has Three major production centers. let suppose they seize European operations but what about Asian market. large chunk comes from Asia itself. Midea has now complete technology. they will continue to sell its products.

and don't forget German firms have more to loose in mainland as compare to Dutch firms.

 

[antiterror13]

Germany has too major R&D and production centers coz of European market.

but China has Three major production centers. let suppose they seize European operations but what about Asian market. large chunk comes from Asia itself. Midea has now complete technology. they will continue to sell its products.

and don't forget German firms have more to loose in mainland as compare to Dutch firms.

I am aware of your reasonings above. The Nexperia thing is out of the blue and very "unwise" decision or you could call it very "stu***".

Considering the geopolitics landscape now, this unthinkable could happen, if USA put KUKA and Midea in entity list .. don't you think? this is hypothetical and very remote, but the possibility is not ZERO

 

[Michael90]

I am aware of your reasonings above. The Nexperia thing is out of the blue and very "unwise" decision or you could call it very "stu***".

Considering the geopolitics landscape now, this unthinkable could happen, if USA put KUKA and Midea in entity list .. don't you think? this is hypothetical and very remote, but the possibility is not ZERO

Germany has too major R&D and production centers coz of European market.

but China has Three major production centers. let suppose they seize European operations but what about Asian market. large chunk comes from Asia itself. Midea has now complete technology. they will continue to sell its products.

and don't forget German firms have more to loose in mainland as compare to Dutch firms.

Lol @antiterror13 is right. You forget that we are not living in normal times anymore. We are in a geopolitical/trade war already, the current stop of hostilitirs is just a temporary seizefire until both sides catch their breath, regroup and rearm again, thrn they will go at it again with even more intensity Lol . I'm surprised some people still don't understand this. So anything can happen and will happen. If you think we are in normal times then you are naive. Nothing is off limits anymore. The US will do whatever they can to contain, slow down or even destroy china's growth and stop them from moving up the technological ladder. So if the US thinks armtwisting the Germans to do their bidding will help their interests in this regard then believe me they will do it. I can assure you that Germany and Europe will cave if push comes to shove. They need the US more than vice versa, and the US has a huge leverage over them economically and even more so militarily with the war in Ukraine making it even more so.
So China jas to prepare for anything. There is nothing that's off limits, need to put that in your mind. The fact that the US already has thousands of Chinese companies on her sanction list should speak volume to how serious the US is in stopping China by all.means necessary. So China better be aware of this and act accordingly.

 

[2handedswordsman]

I simply mean that the tech transfer have already done. Nothing more. I assume it isn't difficult to reverse engineer anything if you have a whole production line in mainland and also you are the owner. Even if the German directors are "keeping secrets". it's 2025. Considering sanctions etc, we have to remember that China itself is the largest consumer of industrial robots globally by far and this trend has a long way to evolve for the years to come.