China Flanker Thread III (land based, exclude J-15)

[plawolf]

I think that the story is true, after all no one who isn’t in active denial would really bat an eyelid at the notion of a F35 loosing a dogfight to a flanker.

But I think it might be a bit of a stretch to directly attribute the F35 crash to the mock dogfight. If we go down that butterfly effect rabbit hole, you can assign kill assists to all sorts of random and absurd things and events. Would an absolute assclown of a driver get a kill claim if he cut off a fighter pilot really badly during the morning rush hour who then crashed a bird later in the day? Obviously loosing a dogfight would be a lot more stressful and relevant, but there is no scientific way to establish a direct causal link even if it’s anecdotally reasonable.

 

[mack8]

If these described incidents are pretty accurate representations of what happened, it goes to show what an awesome machine the Su-27 family is. It took on America's best and stood it's ground. J-11A still retains the russian N-001VE radar and R-77 missiles iirc?
Maybe that F-35C got over G-ed during that maneuver and /or the computers went haywire during the dogfight, later this causing the recovery crash?

 

[leonzzzz]

J-11A still retains the russian N-001VE radar and R-77 missiles iirc

Yes. The goal for J-11A was replication with minimal changes to the Su27 SK.

computers went haywire during the dogfight, later this causing the recovery crash

This is what Ayi was implying. He did not say the F35C had an over G-ed posture.

I would be cautious attributing the recovery crash to the dog fight though. According to the accident report, the pilot was overwhelmed with expedited recovery tasks (his first time try) and forgot to turn on one of the auto recovery programs. The plane was below critical airspeed upon impact. That does not seem like a flight control software issue, if we give 100% to the accident report at least.

 

[leonzzzz]

I dug up the F35 thread back to the time of the incident. This one might be the most relevent.

02/08/2022

Shilao, Yankee and Ayi had their first podcast of 2022 and they dove straight into some interesting information about the F-35 crash:

• Yankee forwarded the most recent video to his friend in PLA who are "relevant to the incident" and his response was "oh, oh yeah, so that's what it looked like from ground level, it's nice to have footage from another angle"
• with this they (PLA) apparently have enough footage to cut together a video of it from multiple angles, one from back of the ship, this one from the flight deck and one panoramic view from higher up
• Shilao and Yankee said it's almost certain that as we speak, research papers are been written up inside PLA with titles like "A review of PLAN pilot training standards, based on F-35C landing incident by a certain country", "The necessity of prompt damage control on-board warships" and "The importance of OPSEC - from the aftermath of a certain incident"
• Yankee and Shilao points out that if you find the above about PLA at the scene of the incident hard to believe, review the landing footage shot from the back of the ship - note that this F-35C was attempting to land while slinging two AIM-9X under its wings
• there are rumours that Japan is interested both recovering the plane and repairing it to put it back into service, however unlikely that sounds

Chahuahui察话会 video at time of incident

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Here's the video now on bilibili, the crab cover photo is a wordplay on "leak".

• I reviewed the F35C crash
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  and at 15 seconds I can see the AIM 9x externally carried.
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• At 09:43 of Chahuahui察话会 video, Yankee brought up the conversation between him and his PLA friend who was from the 4th Air Brigade, regarding mutiple angles of the crash landing. You could hear Shilao verbally cueing Yankee to not spill too much tea.
• Does not decisively prove or disprove anything. Just getting more hints that corroborate with each other I guess.

 

[mack8]

Well, hopefully that komissar got a promotion and gets to fly Su-35 or even J-20, so he could continue practicing his particular set of skills. I don't know if anyone here is into the DCS community, there are some users of it that do some pretty good recreations of various such events. Would be interesting to see such a recreation, for entertainment value if nothing else.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Frankly I don’t see why it is such a huge deal nowadays? These types of cat and mouse games are pretty routine and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

 

[latenlazy]

Frankly I don’t see why it is such a huge deal nowadays? These types of cat and mouse games are pretty routine and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

I think the big deal is that it was a J-11 doing it lol. It’s a form of narrative violation.

 

[Syrida2887]

In the documentary, a PLAAF pilot claimed that he contacted "two foreign stealth fighters" and locked them away during the offshore flight training while driving the J -16, and also mentioned that the aircraft did not approach the offshore area again after this time.
【歼16倒飞锁定两架F35将其驱离 从此F35就没有在中国近海附近出现过-哔哩哔哩】

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[AsuraGodFiend]

https://imgur.com/a/e61GFfe

J-16 pilot recalled intercepting two F-35s: "Our territorial waters were directly behind us, and their intention was clear: to provoke us. After the first encounter, I had already locked onto them. Another of their aircraft then forcibly broke away from the air combat zone and locked onto me. I then pulled my aircraft up and performed a barrel roll, flying upside down over their canopy. At the time, my canopy was only 10 to 15 meters away from theirs. After this maneuver, I locked onto both aircraft simultaneously, and in the end, both aircraft left."

 

[Maikeru]

https://imgur.com/a/e61GFfe

J-16 pilot recalled intercepting two F-35s: "Our territorial waters were directly behind us, and their intention was clear: to provoke us. After the first encounter, I had already locked onto them. Another of their aircraft then forcibly broke away from the air combat zone and locked onto me. I then pulled my aircraft up and performed a barrel roll, flying upside down over their canopy. At the time, my canopy was only 10 to 15 meters away from theirs. After this maneuver, I locked onto both aircraft simultaneously, and in the end, both aircraft left."

"Yes, I know the Finger, Goose!"