Chinese Radar Developments - KLJ series and others

Stealthflanker

Senior Member
Registered Member
Speculation on J-20 radar by Airforce Univeristy.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Man this is bad. The author should refer to real books tbh e.g "Radar Handbook, 3rd Edition" and "Introduction to RF Stealth" Those are places to go for modern fighter radar. Latter one is highly recommended for stealth fighter as it talks LPI.

This part is weird :

1759339125891.png

Because :
1. One will unlikely see the "Nose hot" section as the heat will be soaked up by cooling system. The cooling system itself may dump the excess heat to fuel or like F-35, to the exhaust. The airframe will be the first to appear tbh in IR Sensor than the radar.
2. In terms of LPI.. 2 strategies are available, time and power management, especially if the environment factor are taken in. It wont be "quiet" up there. It will be noisy with many radars, communications etc. This is a challenge for ESM/RHAWS designers as they need to be capable to sort out the "traffic" then give timely warning. This activity is processor intensive. The problem are very severe as one go higher altitude as there will be more emitters visible to the RHAWS/RWR. Radar in other hand in this kind of environment can have "sensitivity" advantage as they know what they are emitting and what to expect. RHAWS/ESM might need to De-sensitize or manage itself to prevent saturation.
3.AESA Radar or Phased array radar in general have low sidelobes, this is make it even harder to detect by RHAWS/ESM gear especially if you are not being directly illuminated by it.

1759339629794.png

So large amount of TRM = Bad.
Like why not consult to a real book maybe ? Something like "Radar Techniques using Array Antenna" by Dietrich W Wulf ?

1759339900070.png

That's basic AESA Radar Range equation notice the N^3 factor. Naturally packing more module is the way. US Navy did that with SPY-6.

Also it's kinda pains me that the author totally abandoned Radar Range Equation in the writings.. like Come on man, you cant do this. You cant make Chekov's gun that is the TRM numbers. Why i call those Chekov's gun ? Because that numbers are just there collecting dust unused. What was going on there ? Like you have TRM count for F-35, and then the Supposed J-20. One can then consult to book by Richard G Curry. "Radar Performance Modelling" 2nd Edition or even the original Allan E Fuhs lecture on Stealth back in 1980's.

Why not just do this maybe, say establish some reasonable assumption. "equal" J-20 vs F-35 module. It's enough for "rough cuts" to show what kind of improvements you can get from increasing TRM counts. I did an example back then but i will repeat it again.

Rf = ((Nj20/Nf35)^3)^(1/4)

The F-35 TRM counts are used as reference value. Let the J-20 be 2200. F-35 are 1676

Rf = ((2200/1676)^3)^(1/4)

Rf= 1.22

So increase in TRM while keeping everything same as F-35 give 22% more range. This will have to be balanced with narrower beamwidth which might cut that factor a bit somewhat but the advantage is there, also having equations and example give readers power to try themselves.
 

BoraTas

Major
Registered Member
Man this is bad. The author should refer to real books tbh e.g "Radar Handbook, 3rd Edition" and "Introduction to RF Stealth" Those are places to go for modern fighter radar. Latter one is highly recommended for stealth fighter as it talks LPI.

This part is weird :

View attachment 161918

Because :
1. One will unlikely see the "Nose hot" section as the heat will be soaked up by cooling system. The cooling system itself may dump the excess heat to fuel or like F-35, to the exhaust. The airframe will be the first to appear tbh in IR Sensor than the radar.
2. In terms of LPI.. 2 strategies are available, time and power management, especially if the environment factor are taken in. It wont be "quiet" up there. It will be noisy with many radars, communications etc. This is a challenge for ESM/RHAWS designers as they need to be capable to sort out the "traffic" then give timely warning. This activity is processor intensive. The problem are very severe as one go higher altitude as there will be more emitters visible to the RHAWS/RWR. Radar in other hand in this kind of environment can have "sensitivity" advantage as they know what they are emitting and what to expect. RHAWS/ESM might need to De-sensitize or manage itself to prevent saturation.
3.AESA Radar or Phased array radar in general have low sidelobes, this is make it even harder to detect by RHAWS/ESM gear especially if you are not being directly illuminated by it.

View attachment 161919

So large amount of TRM = Bad.
Like why not consult to a real book maybe ? Something like "Radar Techniques using Array Antenna" by Dietrich W Wulf ?

View attachment 161920

That's basic AESA Radar Range equation notice the N^3 factor. Naturally packing more module is the way. US Navy did that with SPY-6.

Also it's kinda pains me that the author totally abandoned Radar Range Equation in the writings.. like Come on man, you cant do this. You cant make Chekov's gun that is the TRM numbers. Why i call those Chekov's gun ? Because that numbers are just there collecting dust unused. What was going on there ? Like you have TRM count for F-35, and then the Supposed J-20. One can then consult to book by Richard G Curry. "Radar Performance Modelling" 2nd Edition or even the original Allan E Fuhs lecture on Stealth back in 1980's.

Why not just do this maybe, say establish some reasonable assumption. "equal" J-20 vs F-35 module. It's enough for "rough cuts" to show what kind of improvements you can get from increasing TRM counts. I did an example back then but i will repeat it again.

Rf = ((Nj20/Nf35)^3)^(1/4)

The F-35 TRM counts are used as reference value. Let the J-20 be 2200. F-35 are 1676

Rf = ((2200/1676)^3)^(1/4)

Rf= 1.22

So increase in TRM while keeping everything same as F-35 give 22% more range. This will have to be balanced with narrower beamwidth which might cut that factor a bit somewhat but the advantage is there, also having equations and example give readers power to try themselves.
If anything more modules and collection area mean you can use less power, shorter pulses, less dwell time, and a more aggressive sidelobe suppression and can still achieve the range of a smaller radar. Hence larger radars are actually less detectable for a given task.
 

by78

General
Low-altitude radars from the company Jingyue Jiuzhou (净月九洲).

Man-portable 2D phased array radar:
54827658015_3664183aeb_o.jpg

54827570934_ebbb194441_3k.jpg


3D X-band phased array:
54827658030_6d50f3d339_o.jpg

54827324261_15b48e5e82_o.jpg



Man-portable L-band early warning radar:
54827571264_42d5432beb_o.jpg

54827324326_f3aa8d7357_o.jpg
54827658125_bcc4f509dd_o.jpg
 
Top