CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[Blitzo]

I'm not measuring the speed based on how long the clip takes, but rather what my visual perception of how fast it was moving frame by frame. Do not assume how I came to the conclusion of aircraft speed without evidence.

Obviously, on Stobar, it would have to go longer distance to get speed up to a level where it can take off from a ramp.

I want to address this matter because I think there's a misinterpretation about what @Helius was trying to demonstrate and a misunderstanding about what can actually be derived from both videos.

Tphuang, the video you posted shows a J-15 launched from the longer distance waist position to a ski jump on CV-16, while the video Helius made shows a J-15T launched from the bow position with the EM catapult on CV-18.

Talking about the difference in speed between the J-15 ski jump takeoff versus the J-15T EM catapult takeoff is fine, and no one is disputing that, however it is also the fact that comparing the J-15 ski jump takeoff from the waist position arguably favours the J-15 ski jump takeoff speed even more than if it was done from the equivalent bow takeoff position of the CV-16.


Putting it another way, if one wanted to compare "equivalent standard takeoffs" for a J-15+ski jump versus J-15T+EM catapult, then most optimal visual comparison would be for J-15+ski jump to be done from the bow launch position. That is also the case if one wanted to look at their respective speeds when leaving the flight deck.

No one is suggesting that you made a mistake or that the video was not worth posting.

However it is also very much the case that the video Helius made is the best visual comparison of the two launch mechanisms if one was trying to extrapolate any sort of visual comparison of the state of each aircraft during the launch process at all.

I anticipate there will be some more "STOBAR vs CATOBAR" launch comparisons going into the future so it is prudent for everyone to understand the parameters of these visual comparisons.


(If anything, I think whoever created the original comparison of J-15+ski jump launching from the waist did the community a disservice because it is a bit of a flawed and non-equivalent comparison)


===

I think the original poster wanted to compare the launch time for a fully loaded plane. On STOBAR carrier the plane has to be launched from the third position.

Considering we do not know how heavily loaded either of the two aircraft are (which would influence the "launch time" for both aircraft in both launch mechanisms), that seems flawed to me.


Given the lack of information we have about the launch state of both aircraft, overdeck wind state in the respective situations, objectively speaking the most accurate (or least inaccurate) comparison would be simply both aircraft launching from "equivalent distance positions" e.g.: on the bow positions.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I don’t doubt that EMAL assisted launches allow J-15 to become airborne faster and with a higher payload but there is real danger in eyeballing such metrics from a video.

 

[Blitzo]

I don’t doubt that EMAL assisted launches allow J-15 to become airborne faster and with a higher payload but there is real danger in eyeballing such metrics from a video.

The point is that even when we hold all of the other unknowns into account, the most sensible comparison is one where both aircraft are launched from the same distance (bow positions), because that is one of the few variables that are able to be controlled for to be approximately equal, and thus a better comparison than when the J-15 ski jump takeoff starts from the waist.

 

[vincent]

Considering we do not know how heavily loaded either of the two aircraft are (which would influence the "launch time" for both aircraft in both launch mechanisms), that seems flawed to me.

Given the lack of information we have about the launch state of both aircraft, overdeck wind state in the respective situations, objectively speaking the most accurate (or least inaccurate) comparison would be simply both aircraft launching from "equivalent distance positions" e.g.: on the bow positions.

For catapult-launched aircrafts, their speed at the end should have more or less the same speed regardless of the load out, which means the aircrafts’ load outs do not affect the time of the launch.

For aircrafts launched from the waist position on STOBAR carriers, the time spent on deck should be longer when the planes are loaded.

The point is the launch time on CATOBAR is much shorter than the time on STOBAR, which the video demonstrated.

 

[AndrewJ]

(Just in) CCTV hints, Fujian Carrier Strike Group will be equipped with the latest Laser weapon & UCAV displayed on the Sept 3rd parade.

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[ACuriousPLAFan]

Do you mean October?

The 9-3 parade was held in September 3rd, not October.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

(Just in) CCTV hints, Fujian Carrier Strike Group will be equipped with the latest Laser weapon & UCAV displayed on the Sept 3rd parade.

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Arguably, what's more interesting is this:



We do expect the carrier-based variant of the GJ-11 (possibly designated as GJ-21) for quite some while by now - But are they actually hinting about a carrier-capable variant of the UADF-A to also be fielded on Fujian in the future?

Technically speaking, we did notice of what looks to be wing folding mechanisms on the UADF-A's wings during the 9-3 parade:



But, being this soon... Eh, I don't know what to say.

 

[00CuriousObserver]

Notes from the paid Chahuahui episode today. It was a very good episode and I recommend buying it yourselves if you can. And it’s likely I didn’t include everything someone else might bring up.

0800 They suggested the footage we saw was filmed with light loads on the planes, since it came from an early trial.

0900 Apparently, there was a public video of a launch from Fujian at dusk in the past few days. In any case, the takeaway is that launches happened again recently at darker hours, indicating further progress in testing and training.

1000 They are suggesting the footage we saw was most likely all from the first EMALS launch trial (the one in March). Combined with evidence of sequential trials, this highlights meaningful progress: testing is being conducted in different environments and seasons, which is critical since the EMALS is highly sensitive to external conditions.

1150 The reliance on the third launch position on Liaoning/Shandong also relates to their environment. Heat in the southern seas affects engine performance, making them less effective (the Russians operated in cooler regions)

1720 Yankee: videos of the J-15DT and L-15 should also be released once Fujian is commissioned. It's a family of five: J-15, J-15DT, J-35, KJ-600, L-15

The L-15 is significant; two future CATOBAR carriers (if true) would demand a large number of trained pilots

4100 On Liaoning, the circular rotating disks in front of the elevators inside the hangar were removed, so they were surprised to see them still present on Fujian

5830 During the design phase of the 003, there was an idea for a “super Shandong”, a massive STOBAR carrier with a huge flight deck. 80,000 tons, equipped with three elevators and three takeoff points. The idea was that, in case the catapult development didn’t succeed, they could build a giant STOBAR which would feature only heavy-load launch positions like a big Vikrant, with the bridge set rather aft and most aircraft parked toward the rear half of the ship

The point is 1. we should appreciate that we’re in the timeline where catapult development did succeed, and 2. Fujian’s main role is to build on top of Liaoning/Shandong and validate the catapult system, rather than being set free with crazy designs (like a super STOBAR)

On this note, many issues, especially with the EMALS, will be discovered on the Fujian’s and will need to be ironed out. And these won’t just be something like the JBD interfering with the forward elevator and angled deck

6200 Yankee: 我们进行的这个弹射次数，无论是路上的还是舰上的，总次数是与美国人的福特号的差距在飞速的缩小，【由于肯尼迪的服役时间】，我预计反超不会太远了 / The total number of catapult launches we’ve carried out—both ashore and at sea—is rapidly narrowing the gap with the U.S. Ford. Given the Kennedy’s commissioning timeline, I expect it won’t be long before we overtake them. (in EMALS launches)

They also admitted they were wrong about the “white board weight”, blaming it on their being drunk and high

 

[Ghkzxc]

Rewatching all the footage, I only found two numbers.

03100 for KJ-600:
View attachment 161437View attachment 161432

05100 for J-35:
View attachment 161433View attachment 161436View attachment 161435View attachment 161434

• Didn't see 32. Maybe it is in other footage I didn't check.
• What is the unit of measurement for these numbers, pounds?? Or are they simply codes?

- 13 degree maybe for flaps
32 is that number for kj-600, 32 tons take off weight

 

[gullible]

any idea the operating cost of fujian? of course it is manageable in current china's economy scale..