J-35 carrier fighter (PLAN) thread

[Tomboy]

The need for navalization i.e. replacing easily corroded parts and materials with more durable ones. This means it takes longer for the engines to be ready. AIUI WS21 has same performance as current WS19, the difference is that WS21 is at the end of its development cycle and WS19 is at the start (and will be improved over time).

Does it though? WS-19 is vastly superior to anything before it, WS-21 is at best similar to F414 with better supersonic performance while WS-19 is a more advanced EJ270. 120kN vs ~ 100kN, that's a 20kN difference there.

 

[Clango]

Does it though? WS-19 is vastly superior to anything before it, WS-21 is at best similar to F414 with better supersonic performance while WS-19 is a more advanced EJ270. 120kN vs ~ 100kN, that's a 20kN difference there.

Yeah this is what I was yapping based on, I know it's like numbers from Wikipedia but it's essentially the difference between the the base F414 and the F414-EPE, it's pretty huge

 

[taxiya]

The WS-15 and WS-19 engines are presumably of the same generation. But the WS-15 has been under development for much longer. So I would expect it to finish sooner.

"2nd mover advantage" helps a laggard narrow the gap. It does not propel a laggard ahead of the pack. Generally speaking, you won't finish first if you start late.

You are right IF the leader always make "right" choice at every junction for the follower to follow. But in R&D nobody knows a choice is right or wrong until tested. So the leader may show the follower the wrong path to avoid. The leader then have to turn around and redo works that the follower hasn't done yet giving it a chance not only to catch up but to over take depending on the timing. WS-15 is the main program for the new generation engines, so it is garanteed that it will hit many road blocks before WS-19, some block can be severe enough for WS-19 to surpass in progress. However when WS-19 is in lead, it would face the same fate of WS-15. It is only matter of probability that it doesn't face a further major block, that probability is high though becouse the closer to the goal the lesser problems remain.

WS-15's much longer/earlier development than WS-19 is laying the ground work (finding out the unknowns) for everyone. WS-19 is like piggy-backed on WS-15, just a step behind.

 

[by78]

A few more from carrier Fujian.

 

[by78]

One more from carrier Fujian.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Does it though? WS-19 is vastly superior to anything before it, WS-21 is at best similar to F414 with better supersonic performance while WS-19 is a more advanced EJ270. 120kN vs ~ 100kN, that's a 20kN difference there.

It's not 20kN, but 40kN (since the J-35 has two engines).

However, if the delay is due to the evaluation and rectification works for carrier-based operations + working on adapting the 2D TVC nozzles, and that the WS-19 arrives on the future J-35s together with the 2D TVCs - Then I believe the wait is worth it.

If anything - China can also achieve yet another first, namely the first to deploy a stealth fighter with 2D TVC on a carrier.

 

[Maikeru]

It's not 20kN, but 40kN (since the J-35 has two engines).

However, if the delay is due to the evaluation and rectification works for carrier-based operations + working on adapting the 2D TVC nozzles, and that the WS-19 arrives on the future J-35s together with the 2D TVCs - Then I believe the wait is worth it.

If anything - China can also achieve yet another first, namely the first to deploy a stealth fighter with 2D TVC on a carrier.

Why are people convinced J35 will have 2D TVC? My view is that PLA decided juice is not worth the squeeze for TVC in 5th gen - yes you get increased manouverability and maybe a bit more stealthiness, but at increased cost, weight and maintenance requirements, and reduced thrust. OTOH due to lack of vertical stabilizors, 6th gen basically has to have TVC just to fly safely (risk is taken with UADFs so far).

 

[Tomboy]

Why are people convinced J35 will have 2D TVC? My view is that PLA decided juice is not worth the squeeze for TVC in 5th gen - yes you get increased manouverability and maybe a bit more stealthiness, but at increased cost, weight and maintenance requirements, and reduced thrust. OTOH due to lack of vertical stabilizors, 6th gen basically has to have TVC just to fly safely (risk is taken with UADFs so far).

Because that's what some credible people have been saying

 

[by78]

A close-up of the engine nozzles.

 

[Deino]

A close-up of the engine nozzles.

So these are then WS-21 as it seems?