Chinese Soft Power and Media Discussion and Updates

[tygyg1111]

JC wept. You have no clue do you?
Not that I totally disagree with your observations but this kinda makes me question the colour of the lens you are viewing the below observations ...

I spend a lot of time in China, across various tier cities. My observation is that things in context look very different



I honestly have not seen a single case of peeing in public (toddlers not withstanding).
Spitting, yes, but they generally aim for the drains and usually it's the old codgers.


Slow trucks and various stuff road hogging the left (fast) lane, up. Farm machinery, yup.
Driving down the wrong direction of a highway? Nah.
Driving down the wrong direction of a deserted road? Yup, seen plenty.

Traffic in China cities can be quite wild, by western standards. Coming from South East Asia though, I find it "normal". Yes, there is generally no right of way given but then again, there is no road rage-aggro just because someone squeezed into the gap you did not leave for them.



I've only been in Shanghai, Guangzhou and Chengdu metro.
Can't say I've seen this happen that frequently. It's quite civilised but road rules apply (see above). You leave a gap in the line and people will just flow past you.
Can't say it's any worse (in fact, I'll say it's better) than the Tube, Métro or the NYC Subway in terms of line cutting and not letting people off.



Ah ... absolutely no f**ks given. My favourite photo of China is a middle-age uncle, in a small T3 local cafe, sitting directly under a no smoking sign happily puffing away.



My 2c ...

All large population, metropolis, big cities are similar to a large extent.
The sheer number of people in dense urban environment usually leads to pressure on space that translates into different behaviour. High population levels also generally pushes society to become more competitive (for simple living activities) and therefore move at a much faster pace. Take for instance Indians, they walk in the middle of the street (due to sheer press of humanity) but they don't get offended if you toot your horn at them cos that's their mindset - there's little space everywhere so I'm taking this space and if you want me to move, just toot. New Yorkers ... you try sounding your horn at them, even if they are clearly in the wrong. In case you want to bring up the anomaly of the Japanese, understand that beneath that civil exterior held in place by overbearingly rigid "code of conduct" lies a rather obnoxious, selfish person to the core once you scratch past that facade.

China is right up there with population pressure and mega cities of tens of millions. To expect behaviour to be similar to somewhere else with an order of magnitude lower level of societal competition is just being naive. The Chinese are very pragmatic bunch and will take the path that requires the least effort if it is available. But to the point of outright disregard for civic space and sense? This is where I will disagree with you strongly.

If anything, in my time in China, I observe a very strong sense of morality and civic right and wrong. There will always be bad apples but the exception does not prove the rule. It's not because of the so called "army of cleaners" that cities are as well kept as they are. People do not wantonly deface property (graffiti) or treat things like shyte - not even in the most cowboy of T3 cities do I observe that kind of slef-over-society entitlement (and it's not because of a fear of enforcement).

Talking about enforcement. Another favourite observation of China - almost every lower tier city train station has announcements warning against private cab touts etc, often at the driveways where they will pick up passengers, often with a security personnel or two stationed there blithely ignoring the touts hanging out there. Fear of enforcement? lolz, hardly. Pragmatism on full display. As long as the private cabbies don't create a problem, the security personnel aren't going to interfere with their livelihood.

China is very culturally different. Once you understand what makes them tick, a lot of behaviour starts to make sense and become less objectionable. When in Rome ...

Most 'offenders' are either the elderly (60's) or out of towners from poorer regions / cities. Environment and income changes behaviour

 

[Nevermore]

I've lived in China for about 30 years, spending extended periods in first-, second-, and third-tier cities (Guangzhou, Nanchang, Foshan, Ganzhou). My impression is that China's overall civic standards are passable. I'd be quite surprised if you said spitting in public or being rude to others are common occurrences. While in cities below tier three, some people might not dispose of trash in bins and instead wait for sanitation workers to clean up, I've never witnessed anyone randomly relieving themselves outdoors. Of course, residents' manners are also heavily influenced by age and education levels. Some individuals with lower education or those born in rural areas or small counties during the “Great Leap Forward” era do exhibit coarser behavior—they account for the vast majority of all such uncivilized acts. Of course, the civility of Chinese people a decade or two ago differed considerably from today. I recall that over twenty years ago, China still had many pickpockets and professional scam artists, along with street thugs and hoodlums—all of whom have completely vanished now.

 

[MortyandRick]

I agree with everything, especially the point about society, because China truly has huge problems with this, the so-called "problems of social morality" in China, due to rapid urbanization and a lag in the development of social behavior. I'm not a scientist, I'm just someone who works in the entertainment industry in China, and in my personal experience, 80% of people leave China precisely because of "low moral character" (that is, low moral character, not in the sense of being robbed on the street like in Barcelona, but in social interactions). Japan is good for its manners, but terrible for foreigners in terms of integration into society. China readily accepts foreigners, and they can become part of the community within a year, but the everyday environment is difficult for newcomers to adapt to. Slurping, spitting, loud conversations, chaotic driving, and trash don't add to the appeal. Yes, I didn’t describe Paris, they have the same problems, but China is not France, and it must somehow improve the quality of its citizens, as they did in Singapore.

What you propose is something that will take more than a generation to achieve. There just wasn't enough time to get china there especially considering the speed of development in the country. Those kind of manners probably need like 2-3 generations and more strict littering/ indecency laws.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Today, for example, in Chongqing, at the Chongqing railway station. Two taxi drivers took a parking spot at a bus stop, forcing people to step out onto the road to board the bus. I approached the taxi drivers and asked them to park and look for Douyin elsewhere. One drove off, the other was rude to me. My question is: if the taxi driver had taken the spot respectfully, without causing problems for the residents of Chongqing, was this an attempt to please foreigners? Or was it a display of basic civility? In central Chongqing, you can easily see people parking their cars on the expressway to eat street food, thereby creating traffic jams because the lane where cars should be is occupied by people eating or using their phones. It's also not very healthy for society overall.

There's traffic cameras everywhere in Chongqing.

If their behavior is illegal, they will be detected and fined. You don't need to do anything, the police will take care of it.

If their behavior is not illegal, you are not the police and do not have the right to interrogate motorists, nor are you the owner of the expressway, a taxpayer funded infrastructure project, and do not have the right to order other members of the public to move.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I remember long ago hearing how whites who wanted to get a tan or even white women who wore stockings it was because they wanted to be black. It's as credible as the claims made about soft power. If South Korea has the most soft power in Asia, does that mean that Americans want to be Korean? It's only because of how only Americans are entertained by Korean popular culture, that South Korea is seen as having soft power. I'm sure someone could say that Korean pop culture was popular in Asia longer before in the US, so how come South Korea wasn't seen as having soft power until Americans started consuming it? Yeah it's what the US and West has been doing for a long time already. Trying to claim what they like only makes others worthy and look at how many low self-esteem Asians easily fall for it hard thinking it's important only when Americans like it.

 

[siegecrossbow]

I think China will probably allow more migrants as it gets richer and the involution is replaced by labor shortages. There is still surplus labor in China. Job is scarce.

If there is more prosperity in China in the future, there will be a huge requirement for more service jobs. Chinese people also prefer those higher tier jobs anyway. So, there will be demand for bringing in foreigners to do low paying blue collar work.

They’ll probably prioritize South East and East Asia.

 

[TPenglake]

Today, for example, in Chongqing, at the Chongqing railway station. Two taxi drivers took a parking spot at a bus stop, forcing people to step out onto the road to board the bus. I approached the taxi drivers and asked them to park and look for Douyin elsewhere. One drove off, the other was rude to me. My question is: if the taxi driver had taken the spot respectfully, without causing problems for the residents of Chongqing, was this an attempt to please foreigners? Or was it a display of basic civility? In central Chongqing, you can easily see people parking their cars on the expressway to eat street food, thereby creating traffic jams because the lane where cars should be is occupied by people eating or using their phones. It's also not very healthy for society overall.

Granted I haven't been to China in a while, so my ability to comment on how modern Chinese people act in public is limited.

However, I'm going to need some more details on the anecdotes you provided, because that's not even stereotypical 农场 behavior, that's just straight up illegal stuff that could land you a couple hundred yuan fine and your vehicle towed. Am I to believe in those situations that it was up to you, the noble foreigner, to intervene while nobody else did something as basic as calling the police or knowing Chongqing, personally beating their asses?

 

[Puss in Boots]

They’ll probably prioritize South East and East Asia.

There's no need to overly worry about China's aging population. China's current low birth rate is largely due to social pressures. When people feel less stressed, the population will rebound.

Labor-intensive, low-wage industries will likely outflow to other countries in various ways. However, many labor-intensive industries are now shifting to automated production, which has limited some industrial relocation.

Fundamentally, if China continues to develop modern industrial technology, labor shortages will never occur. Realistically speaking, China's population base is large enough to easily support the service industry. Absorbing some manufacturing workers into the service industry can also solve employment problems, which is China's long-term development direction.

Opening up immigration will only create more problems and is completely counterproductive. China has experienced several major waves of immigration throughout its history, each of which was followed by significant internal unrest. We have learned from this history.

 

[Valentine]

В Чунцине повсюду установлены дорожные камеры.

Если их поведение противозаконно, их вычислят и оштрафуют. Вам ничего не нужно делать, полиция сама этим займётся.

Если их поведение не является незаконным, вы не являетесь полицией и не имеете права допрашивать водителей, а также вы не являетесь владельцем скоростной автомагистрали, инфраструктурного проекта, финансируемого налогоплательщиками, и не имеете права приказывать другим гражданам передвигаться.

Granted I haven't been to China in a while, so my ability to comment on how modern Chinese people act in public is limited.

However, I'm going to need some more details on the anecdotes you provided, because that's not even stereotypical 农场 behavior, that's just straight up illegal stuff that could land you a couple hundred yuan fine and your vehicle towed. Am I to believe in those situations that it was up to you, the noble foreigner, to intervene while nobody else did something as basic as calling the police or knowing Chongqing, personally beating their asses?

Well, that's exactly it. I don't know how long you've been in China, but I'm there all the time, and I often travel to one province, and there's a big difference between the civil status on the mainland and on the island. And what does foreigner's generosity have to do with it? It's just a normal human attitude.

For some reason, locals generally prefer to avoid cars and scooters parked on pedestrian walkways rather than report them to the police, although to be honest, reporting bad parking is gaining popularity on social media, and many are picking up on it. Regarding the talk about the abundance of cameras and police in Chongqing specifically, it doesn't mean anything because there are no penalties. Fines for illegal parking can range from a couple hundred to 500 yuan. It's logical to assume that if citizens were more active in reporting violations via 交管123, then after a second fine, drivers would be much more respectful of parking. However, the pedestrian crossings and pedestrian streets remain blocked, and no one is doing anything about it. Unfortunately, I don't have a Chinese SFZ account so I can register a WeChat account (交管123) and just report parking violations to the police nonstop.

And yes, let's not turn the soft power thread into a discussion about civic education; that's a different topic.

 

[Valentine]

By the way, it's cool that the manhua "谷围南亭/The Last Dynasty" is being adapted for the screen. Because I often see Donghua adapted for the screen in the style of the Tang/Ming Dynasties. And here it's the Qing Dynasty aesthetic. Because sometimes it seems like that dynasty isn't popular.