Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

[Gloire_bb]

It would be unwise to underestimate the Su-57 with it's array of weapons AND it's avionics, which will be a notch over everything India has atm, or even upgraded Su-30MKIs with R-37s. They will both outrange the J-10C/PL-15. It would be even more troublesome for PAF if Su-57 is exported with it's standard weapons even in export form, the Izd.180/R-77M/R-87, the Izd.810/R-97 and the R-74M2, and these weapons finding their way to Su-30MKI too. The J-35 will be a must then at a minimum, and even it will be hard pressed by the R-97 which from what details we can gather would still outrange the PL-16, plus the fact that simply the Su-57 has more power and speed, not to mention it's supermaneuverability.

Su-57 won't get into Pakistan, if Pakistan continues its SAM procurement (and it really needs to per Sindoor experience - so it most probably will do just that). It will fly outside. Closer and much safer than any 4th gen, sure - but still outside.
Everything else is sort of secondary - even winning back local tech superiority over border region a-la Kargil war doesn't mean that much; Indian ambition (which they in fact demonstrated in 2019, and failed to demonstrate in 2025) is ability to enter Pak airspace. Stand off, they already can, and can very well; India didn't even unleash their true non-nuclear firepower in may (Darwin award: win non-nuclear competition and get a nuclear one). Their visible goal is not to settle for that, but get more. Only stand in ops promise more than what they already can. And only stand in ops promise even slight hope to do something with PAK nuclear option.

Yes, Su-57 will probably screw over Pakistan even more over sea - but it is already hopeless there, PAF composition just doesn't support long missions over sea very well, no matter weapon/sensor superiority; IAF and IN air arm just do.
Yes, su-57 is very likely to push PAF away from border region just through their specs, making Rafale AASMs matter again. But it is another tit-for-tat, if PAF procures FC-31 in the future, su-57 doesn't appear to be ideal frontliner against VLO.
Espeeecially if you replace its DBR set with our precious Uttam. J-35 most probably already has GaN x-band set. It already likely supercruises. And, of course, X band stealth.

It's all fun to poke at the indians for their recent misfortunates, but sober minds should be wise to not underestimate them nor draw exagerrated conclusions from Sindoor. In any wide scale, persistent conflict we would not be wrong to expect that the air loss ratio would be a lot less one sided than Sindoor even with the IAF as it is today. They do have capable platforms and numerical superiority, and as known, numbers are a quality in itself.

Sindoor is interesting. On one hand, it was a spectacular failure to execute "strike package" theory - which was simply intercepted head on and disintegrated under fire. It wasn't even under truly challenging circumstances - Indians were stopped without IADS playing role.
But that was first mindless glorious "heavy cavalry charge".

On the other - later fires exchange evolved into same aerial stalemate we see over Ukraine; which is perhaps normality for most air forces (only US and Israel are proven to be able to break in, and among other perhaps only China can be really expected to be able to do it).
In this stalemate, India did very well in stand off "mounted archery competition", having more, better long range fires than Pakistan. But...do you really need su-57 for that?

Indian pride, bread and butter is Brahmos series. Big Brahmos versions already fly on Su-30MKI and they won't fit into Su-57.
Smaller Brahmos-MA will probably fit under wings no prob (and Russia won't have any problems integrating the, which i very much doubt for french) - but so can hundreds of other indian 4th gen aircraft.
Same is true for Rampage, LORA, and so on.
Su-57 stand off munitions are excellent - but they're unique package, on top of already procured Rafale one.

My posts aren't against su-57 - i am quite fond of this aircraft (though always find ironic that it didn't end up something even Russia needed the most). It just shows that Indian situation isn't black and white.

 

[johncliu88]

Indian Defense News: India's Rafale F4 Better Than China's J-35A

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[sheen]

The level of stealth on Su-57 can probably be maintained without cumbersome maintenances, high tech moisture/weather controlled hangar. It looks like it follow the regular Russian principles of a rugged system. Not top of the line stealth but good enough to be like you said : <better than 4.5 gen by several magnitude>

For India with all their maintenances problems, I would bet on a low maintenance design way more than an hangar queen design.

Imagine the day when SU-57 gets the mig-21 treatment from India. Plane smashing left and right. The reputational damage alone from this

 

[gelgoog]

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Just lies and bullshit. The Indians never gave that kind of money for FGFA. And even if they did no country would transfer its crown jewels for that kind of money. It takes billions of dollars to develop an engine. And billions more to develop an aircraft. They think they can get all of that for two hundred million dollars. The price of two of their Rafales. Just retarded.

Their claims the Su-57 isn't 5th generation and unstealthy are also BS. It is at least an order of magnitude more stealthy than 4+ generation aircraft and two orders of magnitude more stealthy than older 4 gens like the F-15.

My reading is su-57 was never planned as penetrator strike aircraft, or even OFCA. Thus - when in offensive role, there is very high attention to stand off munitions (LACM, loitering munitions, glide bombs, VLRAAM - almost no internal stand in direct attack weapons!), no internal EOTS (targeting pod for safe scenarios only). Moderate defensive stealth.

Actually the name of the program says what it is. PAK FA - Prospective Aeronautical Complex for Frontal Aviation.

It is an aircraft designed to ensure air superiority for military operations close to the combat front.

Just remember that Russia is mainly a land army and all other branches of the military are subordinate to it.

There were plans in the early 2000s to make a ground attack aircraft to replace the Su-25. The PAK SA. But that got cancelled.

Penetrator role is expensive, high risk/high reward task, and sending few available 5th gen aircraft (or any aircraft) into blue airspace, against much larger air order of battle, was probably seen as waste of a very limited, irreplaceable force resource.

The Russians don't traditionally do those kinds of operations. Their experience in WW2 was that going deep into enemy territory, like them bombing Berlin early in the war, was just a good way to lose aircraft for little effect.

Another detail here - Russia earlier than most others added S-70 into the equation.

Yeah the attack aircraft role is expected to be done with drones in the future.

Indians were very unsatisfied with su-57 stealth performance, delays and risks (especially after famous engine flameout during demonstration, which was probably supposed to show that program is going forward).

The Indians are retarded. The same kind of engine flameouts have happened to serial F-35s.

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Indian Defense News: India's Rafale F4 Better Than China's J-35A

Ridiculous statement.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Indian Defense News: India's Rafale F4 Better Than China's J-35A

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Next time PAF gets the chance they need to kill half their fleet. Can’t wait to see what kind of cope they come up with then.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

Next time PAF gets the chance they need to kill half their fleet. Can’t wait to see what kind of cope they come up with then.

I don't think there will be a next time after losing twice to Pakistan in 2019 and 2025. India will simply resort to doing Ground launched symbolic missile strikes on imaginary terrorist targets. That is enough to stroke their jingoistic ego. They can make up whatever they want after that to claim they have destroyed x,y,z.

 

[ougoah]

Yes and through superior numbers, India can perform ground to ground strikes on Pakistan with ease. Even with Pakistan buying and setting up proper IADS that can be expended against missile barrages, they can't do the same against large numbers of suicide drones from India.

The thing is India can do all that and rules the waves of the region (against Pakistan) without buying a single new fighter. They want to be able to do that massive air cavalry charge as they attempted in May. They can also afford to outspend Pakistan what at least 7 times? Pakistan is not in a position to trigger some arms race, it will lose but it will be something interesting to China as such an arms race Pakistan may not win but it will bankrupt and slow India down because enormous funds will be spent on near useless things. Useless because India cannot truly hope to perform that air cavalry charge, win and maintain a win with any useful gain in territory or politics outside of cheap optics. Then again, India is usually only interested in cheap optics even if they have to completely make them up or manipulate them.

All the above can easily be countered by China selling Pakistan J-35 and some newer weapons (weapons that have been operational in PLAAF for close to a decade now - PL-17 and PL-16). Just need to sell at the same price China buys them for. The only challenge is getting PAF properly trained on J-35 without India sensing they are preparing.

The strategic necessity here is for Pakistan to let India make the first move and commit, then figure out the cheapest way (because Pakistan has to) in which PAF can counter IAF. Prepare for those scenarios and do all that without IAF figuring out and potentially optimising their decision against what they understand PAF's strategy to be.

By the time IAF decides on a strategy and purchases Su-57 (if it does), PLAAF will have J-36 and J-XDS flying operationally. Even today, IAF with 150 Rafales, 200 Su-30MKIs with new Russian weapons and a few dozen Su-57 with the full set of future weapons is not a drop in the bucket compared to just the 400 J-20s supported by UADFs. Force multiplier is important, each J-20 with UADF support would be quite a lot more capable than Rafale + MKI + Su-57.

India is giving up on any conflict with China and their desires on Tibet. Focusing on actually being a superior force to Pakistan will already suck up most Indian resources available for military for the next decade.

 

[_killuminati_]

Not sure if I should put here or the funny thread. But WION is a major Indian news outlet and this is probably the official Indian strategy to deal with the J-35A -- the Rafale.

0:29 did she just say "it's a multirole shit"?

 

[4Tran]

India isn't going to buy Su-57. I think that it's actually a pretty decent plane. Sure, it may be the least of the fifth gen fighters overall but it'll still be more dangerous than any 4.5 gen out there. There's a lot of negative press about the Su-57 and I think the vast majority of it is undeserved.

The problem with the plane though is that Russia can't build it. Or more accurately, the production rate is so slow that it'll take ages to get any decent number of them. The idea of technology transfer or production in India is also silly for multiple reasons. And even if it could be made, the negativity around the Su-57 is enough that it's not a prestigious plane any more. And as prestige is almost the most important factor in a major arms purchase, I don't see a forseeable world where India adopts it in any numbers.

 

[gelgoog]

The Western journos claim the Su-57 is only used for long range strikes in Ukraine far from the front. And yet we have a video of a Su-57 shooting down a stray S-70 Okhotnik drone right over Ukrainian positions. The Ukrainians only detected it visually and no attempt was seemingly made to shoot it down. What does that tell you?

As for production rate the Russians can make over 20 Su-57 aircraft a year. Which is like twice what the French can usually put out in terms of Rafales. But unlike the French the Russians also produce other fighters.